Old opinions come back to haunt Tigole.
I agree though. Trash is excessive and the raiding rewards are incredibly lackluster. In fairness I haven't stepped in to Serpentshrine Caverns yet, but from my experience in Karazhan plus comparing loot tables it seems like it ain't any better on the way to Vashj.
Kicked in the Vashj
. A guild mate of mine said to check out the Paladin gloves she dropped and compare them with these
Even if $100 is Hanging Out of a Retnoob's Zipper?
L'Europe Qui Gagne
I strongly you guys check out WoWRadio's
interview with Nihilum, listen to it here
. Pretty damn interesting stuff brought up, and overall being a swell 90 minutes (!) of radio. Pop your popcorn.
Haha, I love it that their GM/Raid leader's name is "Kungen". Seems to be such a tongue-in-cheek name (translated in to English it literally means "The King").
Epic Gruul's Lair Picture
Note: Four-eyes is actually our MT!
Crystalforge is Truly Outrageous
Crusader Strike (of Utility)
Kilroy of Dragonmaw [A] responds to this forum post
with a great suggestion for how to improve Retribution Paladin utility in raids.
I'd rather see something more creative with Crusader Strike though. Maybe if it did a different utility effect based on which Seal we have active at the time?
SoL + CStrike = group heal
SoW + CStrike = group mana regen
SoJ + CStrike = stops all enemy movement for a short time in a certain radius (or something)
SotC + CStrike = group attack speed increase
SoC + CStrike = I dunno....maybe make all damage done by the party into Holy damage for a certain amount of time?
The best ideas seem to be CS used with SoL, SoW, and SotC. I don't necessarily think every seal would need to have utility in conjunction with CS. SoJ is probably the weakest suggestion, and a potential coding nightmare. As far as SoC goes, Blizzard has said their combat system doesn't allow for a mix of physical and magic damage. An additional debuff on the target, on the other hand, may be workable. Something that increases overall damage dealt to the target by like 2-3%.
It makes me happy to see more people getting involved in offering positive suggestions on how to buff the weak aspects of the class.
Good News Everyone! I've Got Bad News!
As anonymous pointed out, it's been confirmed:
[Mass Ressurection] is an NPC spell only. Sorry.
Nerf Spiritual Attunement
Now that I have your attention, let me first give some background so that I might qualify my title and explain the details. I was thinking about Mastgrr's comment about Priests being the best healers in the game thanks to their wide variety of tools. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I think the current state of things in-game could fuel a very persuasive argument to the contrary. At the risk of beating a dead horse here on PaladinSucks.com, I would like to bring up the subject of endgame healing again. Specifically, I'm addressing the trend that has arisen among the hardcore raiding guilds of raids running Shadow Priests and Holy Paladins.
Spiritual Attunement was a godsend to tankadins. Let me be naive for a moment and say that I believe Blizzard added this passive ability primarily to solve the problem of Paladin tanks running out of mana. This it has done, and beautifully. The problem is that Spiritual Attunement, being an "always on" ability, does not require the Paladin to actually be tanking in order to function.
Enter clever players. Acknowledging this phenomenon, coupled with the double benefit it brings when you add the mana from Vampiric Touch to the mana Paladins gain via Vampiric Embrace heals, raiders quickly learned that the best and easiest way to get the healing job done was to simply make the Holy Paladins (already stupidly mana-efficient with the talent Illumination and a fair amount of spell crit from talents and gear) do the bulk of the healing. Like it or not, Paladins are - in practice and save for situations with massive AOE damage - the most effective endgame healing class right now.
So, here we are. Thanks to a tanking ability, we're now even more pigeonholed as healers in endgame than we were before patch 2.0. Whether or not Blizzard improves tankadin gear or tweaks Protection talents, raids will still require only a handful of tanks. Since Blizzard appears to still be using the quick and dirty method of increasing endgame difficulty (boss hits harder and take longer to kill, so everybody that can heal needs to heal), there won't be guilds scrambling to gear up Protection Paladins anytime soon - especially if they have no shortage of Prot Warriors who enjoy their job, excel at it, and haven't near the gear and talent issues Paladins still have.
This brings me around to the title of the post. Things have got to change. Priests, considered by Blizzard to be a "pure" class that focuses on the healing aspect of the "trinity," need reasons to fill that role again in endgame. The deep end of the Holy tree for Priests needs some serious buffing, but the details of this are not my concern. We have to nip the problem in the bud here and now. Spiritual Attunement needs to be reworked so that it only functions under certain circumstances. Here is my suggestion:
- Change Spiritual Attunement to function only when the Righteous Fury buff is active.
Increase the threat generated by all healing done substantially (like, 300%) when Righteous Fury is active.
- Modify Righteous Fury to nullify all threat-reducing effects (preventing people from using Salvation to counteract the threat boost on healing).
Some of you may now be wondering, "But what about Retribution in endgame? If it's ever made viable for raiding, this would severely hinder a Ret Paladin's ability to contribute to the raid over long fights." You would be correct. I've thought of this as well. Personally, I have no problem with our being newly billed the "tanking/healing hybrid." Under this rubric, Retribution cannot bring DPS to the table in order to make it raid-viable. Neither can it bring tanking, as a Paladin specced and geared for Retribution and using a 2H weapon would be only slightly better than having a Hunter tank. Retribution needs nothing short of a minor overhaul. Here are my suggestions:
- Add a deep Retribution talent in the same vein as Righteous Fury. It would reduce threat from damage and healing substantially, and allow Spiritual Attunement to function.
- Modify Crusader Strike to return a percentage of damage dealt to members of the Paladin's party within 15 yards. The full amount would probably be overpowered, amounting to no less than an instant cast AoE heal on a 10 second cooldown. A more reasonable amount would be 30-40%.
- Possibly add another deep Retribution talent requiring 5 points in Fanaticism that restores mana to party members equal to 10-15% of the Paladins damage from a critical hit.
These changes would solve a myriad of problems simultaneously. For one, it would allow Retribution Paladins to resume gearing up as before. You would want to stack Strength/AP/crit as your AoE healing and mana restoration utility would scale with damage. I dare say that most Ret Paladins unhappy with the current state of endgame aren't so disappointed about not dealing massive damage as they are about being unable to play like they did leveling up. Paladins are not Clerics. Paladins should be hitting things more often than not. These changes would still leave the Holy tree in a strong state (there's enough spell crit and what not to maintain a high level of efficiency and healing potency), but make Ret a truly viable endgame spec as well.
Sadly, it's a pipe dream. Blizzard is slow to move, and I don't foresee them implementing anything remotely as drastic for the Ret tree. All we know for now is that Paladin burst damage is next in line to feel the full brunt of the nerf bat. Without positive additions and changes to counteract the loss of damage, Retribution will finally be declared dead at level 70.
EDIT: After getting some feedback from the forums, where I also posted this, I decided to eliminate the threat boost for healing (hence the strikethrough). There's a reason our heals are so low-aggro and it goes back to beta, when Paladins could hold aggro simply via healing spam. This change would send our threat generation through the roof and lead to all kinds of complaints from Warriors.
EDIT 2: Yoojmo, a Priest from Manneroth came up with a much better idea on the forums in response to my post. If Spiritual Attunement were made a 30 minute buff like Righteous Fury (able to stack with it, of course), you could simply add a built-in healing nerf for Holy Light and Flash of Light. It could triple their mana cost, or halve the amount of healing they deal.
Priests Are Not Hybrids
that dispel the talking points being spread by pro-Shadow Priests.Tseric's post in question
…you are one of the pure role classes in the 'Holy Trinity'…
So Santo concludes:
The answer to the question of "Why aren't Priests the best healers?" is "because Priests are hybrids". This is false. I'm repeating that to make it clear.
The post also brings up the often-said thing that Priests aren't the best healers. Sorry, but that's crap. Maybe not the most mana efficient, but Priests sure have the best tools for all types of situations - by far.
I Brought a Tier to Your Mom
Yep, Tankadin Gear Review Next Patch
Thanks Lorath for emailing me on this. Ommra says:
As previously promised I passed this on to the developers. I took the liberty of summarising the thread; basically saying that what you are after is gear with +Stamina, +Defense and +Spell damage, and that you are not very keen on +Intelligence and MP5 (Youngblood emphasised the need for more HP and damage mitigation instead).
The devs have read this and thought it sounded fair enough. Paladin tanking gear is going to be more geared towards tanking/hp so this concern should be addressed in the next content patch.
So, again, thank you for compiling this and helping me passing your concerns on to the devs.
I actually disagree with that intellect is not good for Paladin tanking, because some times we actually tank without taking heals so we need it to bust our abilities to keep things going. Good news regardless.
This post brought to you by Cleanse
Keeping you free of the 'rot since level 42.
This is just a quick note to my fans, and those whose interest I have sparked in a certain up-and-coming competitor to WoW. With my focus turning to what I hope will be greener pastures for my MMO experience soon, I'll be wanting to post more on this topic. PaladinSucks.com is not the proper forum for this, as the class in said game is not called "Paladin" and PaladinSucks.com has been and will continue to be focused on the WoW Paladin. I'll continue to contribute here when I run across new and exciting (or frustrating) news and insights into the WoW Paladin class.
I've registered the domain HammerofSigmar.com
and hope to have it up and running accordingly. Don't expect updates too often, especially in these early stages (which is pretty much my trend here - I blog when I'm feeling like it and something is blogworthy). As development moves further along, into alpha and beta, I'm sure there will be more and more juicy tidbits to toss out.
Until then, keep on rolling on Warrior gear.
A class with two out of three talent trees devoted to hitting things, but generally required to spec in the third that focuses on... not hitting things.
BTW - it's my new forum sig.
P.S. This video was shared in a forum thread I'm stoking. I just may have to check out this already-released PC game to get me stoked for... well, you know.
I give up
All I know is that a gravedigger will have fun once like all of the rumors turn out to be crap. Who knows.
There was a reason I removed them, but I can't do anything about it now.
Because Paladin is Bigger than WoW
I present to you an update on a front that I've been keeping a close eye on, especially since Blizzard has expressed a desire to nerf the last remaining bastion of fun left in a Ret Paladin's arsenal - burst damage.Gamespot just put out a great article on the Warhammer Online's Warrior Priest class
Along with much of the same promising news we've been hearing, this article brings us some of the first screenshots and gameplay footage of the Warrior Priest. The inset picture is itself cropped from one of the screenshots found within the article.
I've heard that the developers at Mythic are not permitted to play WoW, so as to prevent consistently drawing comparisons. Clearly they have not been prevented from surfing the WoW forums or related websites (perhaps even humble PaladinSucks.com). The article is chock full of music to the ears of this disgruntled former Ret Paladin (who still refuses to spend a point in Holy out of protest, even if it is the strongest and perhaps the only viable option for general gameplay). I'll just give you the opening bit, and let you delve within for more juicy details:
GameSpot: The big reveal this time around is the warrior priest class. Give us an overview of this character and its abilities.
Steve Marvin: The warrior priest is a follower of Sigmar and comes of age in the Empire, the human lands savagely beset by the forces of Chaos. He is part churchman, part soldier, part healer, and part justiciar. His realm, his race, and most importantly his faith are all in danger of extinction at the hands of a ravening evil flood of appalling monstrosities. He is the levee that will hold back that dark tide. This is no Friar Tuck; the warrior priest strides to the front line, singing the praises of Sigmar and inspiring his fellow soldiers to hold fast. His is a grim responsibility, and the only times he smiles is as his hammer slams a creature of Chaos to the ground.
Warrior priests revel in combat, with their blessed hammers sanctifying each blow to the greater glory of Sigmar and his inevitable triumph over darkness. As his faith and righteous fury rises within him, his god fills him with the power to heal and bless those who join him in his struggle. There is no sight like that of a warrior priest in the thick of combat, dispensing death to his foes and life to his allies.
His blessings deliver health, morale, and strength to all of those within range of his voice, which seldom halts in its righteous soliloquy. Any who stand close to a warrior priest for even a few moments feel their bodies refreshed and their faith renewed. In the height of his faith and fury, he can call upon Sigmar to heal the injured, purge taint and poison from the faithful, or even return life to the newly dead. He can also call holy power to his hammer to deliver devastating blows, or channel Sigmar's wrath directly into the hearts of his foes.
The warrior priest kicks butt and takes names. He wades into combat and smashes things left and right, building up his righteous fury ability with every blow. He then releases that pent-up power with heals, cures, and devastating attacks. Just being near a warrior priest buffs you.
A Galapogos Island Report
Thanks Anonymous for highlighting this thread. Sky has a thread detailing the evolution of the Paladin
from release to the Burning Crusade. Very good read and in my view pretty accurate.
It's pretty obvious though that our class has evolved. My prime example of this our talent Illumination (mana back on spell crit) which Blizzard used to think was totally overpowered for us, but then went "Hey...it makes Pallies unique! Let's build on that!".
This is why all the spell crit gear we could scavenge out such as the Eye of the Beast
and Cap of the Scarlet Savant
locked us out.
I actually began to notice that they changed their philosophy on this right before 1.9 when they gave us the Sanctified Orb
as a quest reward for level 50. That trinket is probably the first Pally-only gear that had spell crit.
And of course...after that, it all just got better. The dungeon 2 set was arguably one of the best itemized sets ever. Only strength, intellect and stamina and +spell gear with some +crit and +spell crit thrown in there. One of the set bonuses was a melee +spell damage proc thingy, which is pretty cool. Pretty much in every aspect better than the Zul'gurub set (which had agility, wtf?).
Anyways, I'm rambling on. Read Sky's thread.
Lack of Healing Healers!
Ghmou wants you to check this thread
I see a lot of the complaints that are posted on your website also being posted in this thread, often very clearly and simply. It really made me feel for all the healing classes in the game - and some of the tanks!
The game revolves around killing things.
Healing doesn't kill things.
Tanking doesn't kill things.
I wonder why Priest Holy, and Druid/Shaman Resto aren't all that loved by players? I left out Paladin Holy because, well, we can PvE and PvP up a storm (Arena in particular) with the same build.
It's an age-old question when it comes to WoW (and MMORPG games). Non-DPS spec classes are kinda "left out" when it comes to killing stuff. My opinion is that there's no real solution to this and it's something that will probably never be solved, unfortunately.
Interesting question the thread poster asks though considering that Shamans more often now spec DPS, Pallies spec tanking, Priests spec DPS, Druids spec Feral and so forth...non-healer abundance!
There is only one true hybrid class, and that is the Druid
and they said it themselves at Blizzcon.
Then there are officially two semi-hybrid classes which is the Shaman (Heal/DPS) and the Paladin (Heal/Tank). And I guess if you want to be modern, you can throw in Priests (Heal/DPS) and Warriors (Tank/DPS) there too.
I love it when Priests say try to explain the prevalence of Shadow Priests all of a sudden with scoffing at that their Holy tree sucks. I disagree. I'd say that Holy Pallies and Holy Priests are quite even when it comes to healing power, but that Pallies absolutely suck when it comes to anything else than single-target healing. Priests live the good life with plenty of tools to their disposal whereas Pallies are left with two options (and a marginal third at best). Pallies have greater mana efficiency. That's about it.
The Shadow tree is too good!
It even out-hybrids the real hybrid.
Shadow Priests are this patch's Feral Druids.
LOL PVP FoL
I don't get Libram of Justice
: Causes your Flash of Light to increase the target's Resilience rating by 24 for 6 sec. That's about 0.61% resilience. Not too shabby because it's free and gearless for the target.
This just brings us to a much larger question: who uses Flash of Light in PVP? Yeah, in one-on-one maybe - but no way in 2v2 to 5v5 arenas!
Shaman's slot item Totem of the Second Wind
does the same, but Lesser Healing Wave rank 7
actually heals for a decent amount so I can see as to why Shamans would use it in PVP.
But Flash of Light? It heals for too little to be of any marginal difference. If the idea is for us to throw it every once in a while, then it's the global cooldown plus the short duration that's making it effectively worthless.
I think the best way to fix it would be to make it apply to Holy Light as well. It would be a great addition, cause then I'd actually consider getting it.
The sweet irony here is that it's currently the highest budget libram
For Retributionists, consider running Heroic Blood Furnace
Bright News for Tankadins
Tseric has responded to a player post in the Paladin forums asking if they should just give up the whole notion of tanking beyond Karazhan. Distane from Rexxar[A] wants to know
, and rightly so, I think.
Clip of Dethecus[A] chimes in with a few troll comments to try and stir the pot.
Shortly after, Tseric settles the issue and says,
The devs actually mentioned today that Paladin tanking wasn't exactly where they wanted it to be and there would be attention paid towards that end of things. Overall, they do expect Paladins, Druids and Warriors to fill tanking roles in end-game, whatever they may be. While there may be a flavor distinction between tanks, we don't want to (or want the players to) find some rigid hierarchy by which classes are measured in their tanking potential to the third decimal point.
Edenite's response made me chuckle, when he quotes Tseric and simply notes,
"Clip just got owned by a blue, lawl."
The Definition of Absurdity
In this thread
where the OP brings up the fact that all Death and Taxes
Paladins are 41/20/0 specced (fyi: I am too!) this list is brought up by Nidhog from DnT:
Our warriors tank
Our paladins heal
Our druids heal
Our priests DPS
Our rogues DPS
Our hunters DPS
Our warlocks DPS
Our mages DPS
Our shamans heal
The only real primary healing class in the game doesn't heal? Nidhog adds, "we have 2-3 shadow priests and usually bring them because their utility + DPS is unmatched"
. And truth be told from my own experience, he's spot on. Shadow Priests are an incredible value to a raid because they both provide good DPS, healing and mana regeneration. I prefer being in the same party as one because I know it will aid healing my party and give me mana back.
In the end though, doesn't this strike you as a bit of a whack situation? The non-hybrid class is better at being a hybrid than the hybrids. The one top-of-the-line healing class is asked to not heal. I find the whole thing completely absurd.
It Just Keeps Getting Better
I was compelled to do some more browsing tonight, as I find myself seeking greener pastures in WAR for my Paladinly tendencies. Lo and behold, I ran across this recap of a press event
. Here are some juicy bits regarding the Warrior Priest class:
So the Empire "tank class" gets to wear the fruity armor this time around. We will be beating on things, as the Paladin should, and can even dual-wield hammers. DUAL FARKING WIELD BABY!
Each race in WAR has four classes from which to choose. As the name implies, they're always war-like classes. This is not a game for the non-violent. Forget spending your career behind the lines making armor, not even the healers get a break.
"[The Warrior Priest] is a joyous healer class because he can smash the living snot out of you," Barnett said with not-at-all contained glee when he introduced the Empire healing class. In Warhammer, no one is just a healer. Everyone must and can fight.
The four Empire classes are:
- Knight of the Blazing Sun: In MMO-speak, he's a melee-tank. In Paul's world this guy is, "King Arthur meets Monty Python Knights of the Holy Grail with more violence." The Knight of the Blazing Sun is an extravagantly armored and decorated warrior class.
- Warrior Priest: This guy is both a healer and a melee class in the traditional world of MMOs. Luckily, he has a large hammer or two with which to brain people so Paul can enjoy them as well.
- Witch Hunter: Traditionally, he'd be a melee DPS class. Barnett though was far more impressed with his hat.
- Bright Wizard: This guy is a ranged DPS class, aka a nuker, and the one we got to play in our demo. Literally, he looked like he'd recently been on fire and - although this wasn't in yet - Barnett promised that when he died he'd explode in a ball of flames. "He's basically a nuclear weapon," Barnett told everyone.
Someone Finally Getting It Right...
... or at least they seem to be from their concept write-up. This was posted
on the WoW General forums. Behold - the concept write-up of Warhammer Online's Warrior-Priest
:A Warrior Priest of Sigmar is a fearsome master of battle and tireless defender of the faith. These holy warriors are the hammer of the church, serving in both defense of the Empire and the furtherance of the church’s goals. A deadly melee fighter, the Warrior Priest relies on the blessings of his god to protect him in combat. His zeal for battle further reinforces his Righteous Fury, spreading the strength that Righteous Fury provides to his companions and allies. With the might of the divine strengthening his arm and protecting the faithful, the Warrior Priest is a lethal combatant and potent supporting character all at the same time.
Warrior Priest Specialty
For the Warrior Priest, faith is life. Sigmar demands bravery in defense of the Empire, and he grants the greatest blessings to those who demonstrate this trait. A Warrior Priest’s Righteous Fury grows strong with every swing of his arm against the Empire’s foes. As his Righteous Fury grows, his powers expand as enemies are smitten more fiercely and allies are protected from greater harm. With sufficient Righteous Fury, the divine power invested in his righteous litanies and sermons is extended beyond his immediate circle of Righteous Fury to all those who can hear his words.
Playing as a Warrior Priest
As a Warrior Priest, your place is in battle. Your Righteous Fury grows as you strike down the enemy in Sigmar’s name, and your divine powers grow with Righteous Fury. Thus, to reach the peak of your power you must join in the fight. Your prayers bear the power of your god to take life, or give it back, but they are designed to compliment your melee capabilities. Your blessings bring powerful boons to those around you, but you must be close to the fight for your words to reach them. To do your job you must place yourself at risk, but it is in this risky position which you are most powerful.
Fighting the Warrior Priest
A Warrior Priest can be a deadly opponent, and a very difficult one to kill if you are not prepared to counter both his melee and divine capabilities. His faith is a strong shield, and so to defeat him you must break that Righteous Fury, either by denying him the ability to gain it, or by preventing him from using it. Denying his Righteous Fury means engaging him without letting him engage you – a sound strategy for a ranged attacker – but disrupting his divine abilities will be a better strategy for those who must close with him to fight. Without the powers of his Righteous Fury, the Warrior Priest will become far more vulnerable to your assault.
The Warrior Priest Look
Moderately armored with breast plate worn over a long robe and vestments of faith
Wields a powerful war hammer or great hammer in the finest traditions of his patron deity
Ornamented with symbols, books, regalia, and various other articles of faith
Tonic follows up with his coments,So let me get this straight... in order to be able to:
I have to put myself in melee combat, and stay there?
Pinch me, I must be dreaming :3
and later adds,
I forgot to mention that the W(arrior)P(riest) was quoted to "radiate healing" by building Righteous Fury.
AoE passive healing because of my smashing? Yes, please!
THIS is what many of the so-called "retnoobs" wanted in WoW. It's not that we don't want to heal or support others. If we simply wanted to play a Warrior, we would have rolled one. We wanted to play LIKE a Warrior, but benefit others more directly in the process.
Edit: Added link to official Warhammer page with this description and concept art.
Very good post in defense of Retribution Paladins by Thrommel, check it out
. Long and popcornish. Ret has gotten a lot of flack recently, not only due to the outcries of feeling bad in PVE (versus for example Shadow Priests and Feral Druids). And now with the jab in the stomach that Paladin burst damage needs to be nerfed, I feel with you guys. I honestly think that if Paladin burst damage is going to be nerfed, they should lower the cooldown on Crusader Strike or something - at least to make Pally sustainable damage up to par with other hybrid specs.
No Longer Vanilla WoW
Tseric makes an appearance in the Pally forum and says this
regarding our class role and DPS balance philosophy:
[You are] A healing/tank hybrid. Every class needs some capacity to deal damage, as that is the primary component for the solo game, but Paladins have always placed fairly low on the damage spectrum.
Rogues define the baseline measurement and, on average, all classes fall below that baseline. Now, in certain cases some classes may exceed that baseline, whether they be a Mage in a particular raid encounter or a Fury Warrior having a good run in a BG, but on average that is the way damage is arranged.
Burst damage and big crits are harder to control and design from a development perspective, due to the number of random or unpredictable elements in any formula. Therefore, crit-based abilities and burst damage tends to see more fine tuning and tweaking than sustainable damage.
As far as tanking and healing, the Paladin has been given plenty of tools for healing and threat gain/management.
In other news, regarding raiding - Tigole adresses a couple of concerns
and in a nutshell says:
- The consumable situation is "under investigation". Anyone who's been to Naxx knows how crazy it can get.
- Raiding gear isn't that much of an improvement and will probably be buffed.
- Keying process (getting revered, doing quests, etc) needs to strike balance of challange and sense of accomplishment. A way for newer people to "catch up" is under works.
- The 25-man raid encounters are too hard, so Magtheridon and Gruul are going to be nerfed.
Go And Riot, Association Football-Style!
WoWInsider has a post
on how blogger Relmstein's conclude
that class riots seem to actually have an effect.
Now, I've actually thought about this myself. The first time I felt like a had an immediate effect was when Shaman's got their Windfury totem nerfed but subsequently reverted
. Yeah, they reverted it cause Pallies had superior buffs. But still, it was kind of a weird solution cause Windfury Totem did not make up for the Pally buffs anyway. In my view what Blizzard seemed to do was just please the angry mob.
However, after that I started to pay attention to things I began to think about this more. However, I've always kept in mind
that there's a difference between participating in the behemoth mentality
and just straight-up complaining about legitimate concerns.
For example recently in our case: the planned nerfs to Forbearance and Avenging Wrath completely lacked legitimacy because it failed on solving what it was sought to fix. This is different from Warriors nag the crap out of how "poor" they have it because Pallies (who have less health in an end-game where 2k more HP can mean everything) and Druids (who can't block or parry and suck healers dry) can tank just as well.
Anyways, nice to see though that despite what many people claim, Blizzard do take your words in to concern. The big deal is however whether its due to fear of the angry mob or not.