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BluetrackerFinally Some Info
Stratic Chat Highlights from Kalgan:
- On Enhancement/Ret being mostly solo-trees:
- On Enhancement/Ret being mostly solo-trees:
Want Ret to be more than just a leveling spec.- Regarding Druid and Pally Tanks:
We feel [Crushing Blows] add too random an element for players in endgame content. We expect to deal with this issue at some point in the future (although it may not be immediate).- Retribution viability:
I'd like to see ret become a bit more raid viable in terms of dps and overall utility. the ret pallies will save them! next patch'! ok, maybe not or maybe... Right. At any rate, something we've noticed in our testing is that ret pallies are in kind of a jam where their dps isn't enough to get the put in a dps group in a raid. ... which makes their dps suffer even more. Hopefully we can get that solved in a way that doesn't cause ret pallies to rule the pvp universe.- Hybrids vs Pure classes:
we want "pure" classes to perform better in their primary roles, with hybrids coming close, but providing additional group utility to offset their reduced primary role power
posted by Mastgrr at 11:09:00 AM
11 Comments:
Also important, Kalgan confirmed that the sole reason they nerfed illumination is to have holy priests suck less in comparison.
Straight from the horse's mouth:
[17:10] <@Brannoc> *nv* From the CM's replies on the forums regarding the diminishing role of priests in the current game content (PvE and PvP), we're led to believe there is going to be future review of priests. Can you provide us any insight on the changes that could be a possibility?
[17:11] <@Kalgan> Well, i think some of the diminishing role of priests had a lot to do with the power of the illumination talent. With 2.1 there are some significant balance changes that should improve the role of healing priests in endgame content regardless of the fact that it wasn't the hpm/hps of the priests themselves that changed significantly.
[17:11] <@Kalgan> It also had something to do with the power of the shadow spec. ;]
My wife is a balance druid... she's usually last on damage meters (above tanks and healers of course)...
She knows it's not the best spec for raiding and so does the guild. If she wanted to get raid spots more often... she'd spec feral or resto. But she wants the boomkin because for her it's better and more fun.
If you want to get in more raids... you have 2/3 choices. Every spec does not have to provide the same level of utility.
Be content, there's less stress and you'll enjoy the game more.
The problem is that they've already half dealt with this problem, just backwards.
They thought that pure (dps and tanking) classes wouldn't be able to compete for spots if they couldn't do something else. So mages/rogues got CC. Warriors got dps etc.
That made the "extra utility" offered by Hybrids something they needed to just offset the pure classes extra utility.
Ahhh yes, explicitly 'Nerf Paladins to buff Holy Priests'.... Bloody idiot.
All nerfing Paladins' mana efficiency does is lock them even more into Healing as their raiding role, and leave even less room for off-spec Paladins (using an improvised FoL Spam+ heavy Mana/5 as a sort of healing rotation). The only way to get Holy Priests 'back' into their role as the premier healing class (I am still as yet far from convinced they ever left it said role I should note) is to buff their 30+pt talents and drastically improve the Paladin off-specs. Seriously, it's not rocket science.
Best way to do it? Temporary chance for damage reduction on heal, stackable, and make them slightly more mana efficient when spamming heals. And on concert with this significantly improve Paladin tank itemisation and mana regen (the SA nerf hurts in this regard in raids).
And finally
Q: What is the developer vision on the subject of "pure" and "hybrid" classes? Are pure classes supposed to be better than hybrids in their specialized role? Tanking for a warrior, healing for a priest, magical dps for amage, physical dps for a rogue.
Kalgan: Generally speaking we want "pure" classes to perform better in their primary roles, with hybrids coming close, but providing additional group utility to offset their reduced primary role power. Some restrictions apply, your mileage may vary.
Do these guys even play the same game?
Regarding the ret paladin 'fix' or whatever you call it, I do not believe a word Kalgan says until something is actually really done about it, only then I'll believe.
1)I'm not holding my breath for these supposed changes. Chances are they'll be going live around 2010.
2)I'm expecting them to be weaksauce - like Improved Sanctity Aura getting another 1-2% damage boost.
3)Blizzard still doesn't seem to get it. Ret Paladins aren't as concerned about damage so much as just being wanted to hit things rather than heal. Mark my words, you'll still see the vast majority of Paladins spec'd and geared for pure healing in endgame after their changes go live.
"Blizzard still doesn't seem to get it. Ret Paladins aren't as concerned about damage so much as just being wanted to hit things rather than heal."
And thats it right there. even if they nerfed our pve dps somehow but gave us some REAL abilities that benefit our group when we hit stuff it wouldnt really matter. probably not in pvp too much either...with all the health people have burst damage isn't what it used to be at level 60.
The solution here, from a ret point of view (and maybe from a holy one as well) is simply to have an improved ability to enhance the performance of other group members (+ damage and/or +heal) that is combat dependent. Judgments begin to do this, but need modification.
First, they are not powerful enough: more healing or more DPS increase for other party members is needed.
Second, some limitation on the number of affected raid members is beneficial, so that there is a role for more than 1 paladin with an enhanced judgment per raid. Auras have such a limitation. Ergo, a jusgment that enhanced the effect of an aura, like sanctity aura, would be ideal, with the effect a plus to damage or heal of other party members, as applicable.
The "other" party member part is also important, the idea being to help others, not help the paladin grandstand or max the damage meter, or to have a hybrid class competing with specialists.
Issues with Retribution
1. Too much burst damage
2. Not enough combat options
3. Not enough group viability
4. Too many stats needed to work.
How to fix this:
1. Trade burst damage for reliable damage
2. Add new spells/abilities
3. Add group benefits
4. Consolidate stats
How to do it:
1. Remove seal of command and seal of blood. Give Seal of vengeance to blood elves.
2. Improved Judgement - Reduces the cooldown of your judgement spell by 2/4 seconds.
3. Pursuit of Justice - When activated, the paladin is immune to fear effects for 10 seconds. 3 minute cooldown.
4. Vindication - Gives the paladins attacks a 5/10/15% chance to reduce healing effects on the target by 15%
5. Conviction - after a judgement spell is cast, the paladins spell power is increased by 15% for 4 seconds.
6. Fanaticism - (switched with vengeance) - Increases the critical strike chance of all judgments by 15%
7. Vengeance (switched with Fanaticism) - Gives the paladin a 15% boost to all damage for 10 seconds after any judgement spell triggers a critical strike. In addition, any heal that is cast will be insta-cast, but will cost 125% mana and use up the vengeance effect.
8. Sanctified crusader - In addition to its normal effect, judgement of the crusader will increase the damage of all attacks made on a target by 1/2/3%
9. Divine purpose - Your attack power is raised by 35% of your intellect.
10. Crusader Strike - A strike that causes weapon damage +40% of your holy spell damage on the target. 8 second cooldown. This strike has additional effects based on what seal the paladin is using:
Seal of Righteousness - Crusader strike damage is done as holy damage.
Seal of Justice - Target is stunned for one second.
Seal of Light - Party is healed for 150 hp.
Seal of Wisdom- Party gains 150 mana.
Seal of Vengeance - Increases the paladins dodge chance by 20% for 5 seconds.
----
Overall paladin DPS would go up, but burstyness would be cut out, except for JOR's, but JOR only does 150% damage vs 200% damage of JOC.
Utility for groups and pvp would increase greatly. Holy Paladin armor would fit as Retribution paladin armor as melee critical strike chance would no longer be needed. The main stats would be STA, INT, +SPELL and STR.
-Vir
Lord... those are some of the worst suggestions I've heard.
Holy Paladin armor would fit as Retribution paladin armor as melee critical strike chance would no longer be needed
That right there spells retarded. If anything they need to make the Ret tree MORE dependant on Melee stats like crit and atk pwr not less. Currently spell power is more important that atk pwr, and that's not right imo.
That right there spells retarded. If anything they need to make the Ret tree MORE dependant on Melee stats like crit and atk pwr not less. Currently spell power is more important that atk pwr, and that's not right imo.
I didn't catch this until now, but if you think spell power is more important than attack power if you are ret, you have some homework to do.
As for my suggestions, they were simply to cut down on burst damage which is what the devs are seeking to do, in addition as resilience becomes more and more popular, crit based damage such as most of the ret tree will become more useless.
There is a reason all the rogues in season 2 are respeccing to combat maces, the reason is the effect resilience has on their crits.
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