15 March, 2007

Lack of Healing Healers!

Ghmou wants you to check this thread and says:
I see a lot of the complaints that are posted on your website also being posted in this thread, often very clearly and simply. It really made me feel for all the healing classes in the game - and some of the tanks!

The game revolves around killing things.
Healing doesn't kill things.
Tanking doesn't kill things.

I wonder why Priest Holy, and Druid/Shaman Resto aren't all that loved by players? I left out Paladin Holy because, well, we can PvE and PvP up a storm (Arena in particular) with the same build.
It's an age-old question when it comes to WoW (and MMORPG games). Non-DPS spec classes are kinda "left out" when it comes to killing stuff. My opinion is that there's no real solution to this and it's something that will probably never be solved, unfortunately.

Interesting question the thread poster asks though considering that Shamans more often now spec DPS, Pallies spec tanking, Priests spec DPS, Druids spec Feral and so forth...non-healer abundance!

13 Comments:

Anonymous Reeve said...

I'm not 100% sure on this but it is a possibility that Warhammer Online might have some way to solve this problem. I know a lot of people are getting sick of hearing about a game that isn't in beta but they have a great idea.

Every class has some form of rage, you have to engage in combat to build up your "rage" to then cast for example, heals.

11:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If all players want is to always fight...Why not make a combat-healing-system. ( Priest as in any healing class in the following paragraph )

For exemple, Priest could go into "Holy Form". They would now see friendly target as ennemies. A priest would have to hit his friends with his holy weapon. Bashing aways on his friend with his mace of pure light would heal them. You could have special moves, rogue-like combo system.

A priest could turn the DPS of his weapon into HPS. They could hit friendly target with attacks just like normals one, with a speed and an amount of damage(heal). Auto-hit and special moves using mana, building up combo points :

Heroic-healing Strike (Rank 1)
55 Mana
Next melee
Requires Melee-healing Weapon
A strong attack that increases healing on hit by 63.

Sinister-of-pure-light Strike (Rank 1)
103 Mana 5 yd range
Instant
Requires Melee-healing Weapon
An instant strike that causes 31 damage in addition to your normal weapon damage. Awards 1 combo-healing point.

Suture wound (Rank 1)
201 Mana 5 yd range
Instant
Requires Melee Weapon
Finishing move that causes healing per combo-healing point:
1 point : 82-101 healing
2 points: 123-199 healing
3 points: 210-279 healing
4 points: 303-368 healing
5 points: 371-425 healing


Remember who created this system, me.

Matth
matthb@caramail.com

12:01 AM  
Blogger Micah said...

Matth, I don't know if I'd WANT to remember. No offense, but that would be soooo patronizing on Blizzard's part. I'd quit because of it.

"You want to attack stuff? STFU and heal, but we'll let you pretend you're attacking stuff."

You MUST be using sarcasm, because the offensiveness of this idea goes far beyond the nerfs that healing classes have had to deal with.

Also - the cries for healers continue:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=84359025&sid=1
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=83559046&sid=1

It makes me laugh and cry (but only a little).

2:56 AM  
Blogger Lorath (EU Bloodhoof) said...

Someone mentioned a healing NPC you could hire, kinda like the mercenaries in Diablo2.
It's a fun idea to toy with, say the party leader can "hire" such a NPC, maybe by buying a consumable summoning device with 5 charges that last 12 hours and only works inside instances. Like having an extra member to help with offhealing...
Yeah I know, I know. Admit it tho, it's a fun idea :)

12:51 PM  
Blogger Kaziel said...

@Lorath: While that sounds good in theory, I can see one major problem... the NPC would only be able to react to numbers, not situations. A human healer will be able to do some minimal predictions of enemy activity that a program can't. Also the ability to change tactics in a rapidly changing situation would separate a human healer from a NPC healer.

While a game company could make it so that there is no need for human healers, this would also greatly limit their ability to creat challenging content for players b/c they would be limited in how a mob would attack, thus making most bosses nothing more than simple tank and spanks (and we all know how boring those are...)

4:52 PM  
Blogger Micah said...

Strangely enough, I think that the "solution" already exists - it was just never implemented (and will never be implemented) in WoW.

Anyone play FFXI? I disliked the game, but the "job" system was... well... top notch.

You had one character. You had access to all the different classes on your one character. Only thing was, you could only level one of them as a main class at a time.

You could switch them at will by heading to your home (or whatever).

This sytem was great because, well, you could do everything you wanted on one character. Sure, if you were levelling your level 10 Warrior job and were suddenly needed on your 70 Priest (using WoW terms), you'd have to head back to town, but you could maintain your identity.

Of course, the way WoW is set up (with races being barred from some classes) it gets kind of wonky.

What Blizzard needs to do is significantly reduce the costs of respeccing. Respeccing is the "equivalent" of being able to take multiple jobs - in some senses.

I like to think to myself, which would rain more money from the economy over time? A player respeccing once a month for 50g, or a player respeccing daily/weekly for 5g?

The answer is, of course, daily/weekly. I'd be much more likely to toss 5g out the window to go have fun PvPing, then toss another 5g out to swap back to a raiding spec.

Granted - this doesn't change the game's major issues - that Paladins aren't wanted to DPS in raids (generally), that Hybrids as a whole are made to heal, and the Warriors in general are expected to tank.

Still... If Blizzard wants an effective money drain, and they want to please their players, they need to give up this "chews ur talentz karefooly KEK!" stance, and allow us more flexibility. It would stop the complaints on many fronts (Hybrids that don't want to spec "useless" when they're not raiding), but is not a final solution.

Blizzard just needs to bite the freaking bullet and let us respec - cheaply - whenever we want.

Sure, it might cut back on the number of re-rolls, but it will also cut back on the number of people who quit due to healer burnout, etc.

-Ghmou

5:55 PM  
Anonymous Triff said...

I play a shaman. So here's my take on this...in a game where finding a group is sometimes frustrating, and where many of the world stuff can be done solo, healers are left out in the cold. I have put together a set of healing gear (it's decent at +850 healing and 75 mp/5) that I use when I need to but for the most part I use my enhancement gear. I'm not going to respec resto unless a raiding guild absolutely requires it, and even then, I won't until my warlock is 70 and I still have something I can farm/kill stuff with.

The number one reason most healers don't want to spec for healing is the inability to effectively solo things.

5:59 PM  
Blogger Kaziel said...

@Ghmou: I was always under the impression that the purpose of paying for respecs was to encourage picking a spec and sticking ot it, not to take money out of the economy.

6:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

An interesting history of how the paladin became WoW's primary healing class:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=84309540&sid=1

6:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have come to the conclusion that WoW's class/talent tree system is basically unfixable and now I am just waiting for the next big MMO for me and my friends to jump to.

Your best bet for "speccing" on a whim is to be a feral druid. The 1 second respec. More like the 1 sec class change.

I think 2008 will be a year of choices. Let's see what comes out of Gen. 3 MMOs.

Remember when dying penalties and "dragon stealing" were the big issues of gen 1 MMOs? Plenty of room for improvement in this market--that's the most exciting thing. (i.e. Throw loyalty out the window, follow the innovation!)

7:54 PM  
Blogger Micah said...

@kaziel

In a sense, yes. That seems to be the purpose. However, if that is really the intent behind the system, why allow respecs at all?

It would be "better" for the company to force people to keep rerolling if they made mistakes - at least, one could argue this. More playtime just to make sure that you build your character "right".

The fee certainly IS meant to discourage switching, but I think it has a larger purpose. People will swap specs a lot in their time playing. High spec costs are a great way to take money out the economy.

Due to Blizzard's stance on healers (Raiding PvE builds tend to differ from Solo PvE and PvP builds), it only makes sense to me to allow people to respec for a lesser cost, UNLESS Blizzard is planning on revamping Healing classes to maintain high performance in PvP and solo PvE/Grinding with the same spec.

It seems absurd to me that one spec rather than another (in terms of tree-choice) should excel in PvP or PvE. Let's face it. The way things are, some specs don't belong in PvE. Some specs don't belong in PvP. The fact that these specs are so woefully awful/useless in some roles means that players cannot play the game as they want to play it. When you need DPS, you don't bring a Ret Paladin. When you NEED healing, you don't bring an Enhancement Shaman (generally). Sure, these classes can "fill in", but Blizzard has seen fit to make them less-than optimal.

To circumvent this PvP-SoloPvE/PvE bifurcation, Blizzard needs to either revamp everything - making every tree completely viable in all aspects of the game (good luck with that!) or permit people to swap for a much lower cost.

When I've got a healer, but am looking for a tank, I'd love to have someone message me and say "I'm Resto right now, but gimme a few mins and I'll respec Feral for this dungeon".

Right now the game is inflexible when it comes to many specs. You can't make them ALL viable in ALL situations without overpowered/imbalancing some of them.

The easiest method of "fixing" the issue is to go with the flow - there are PvP specs and PvE specs, but you can pay 5g to switch stuff around whenever you like.

Just the way I feel about things.

-Ghmou

9:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with Ghmou. Basically, this is a major flaw with the talent tree system (as set up by Blizz). In fact, it is really a characteristic of this game. When you play WoW you will experience this talent tree paradox.

Perhaps something will come along to integrate the job system with a bright aspects of WoW.

The thing with an MMO vs. a regular game is that you have to make sure your system is really tight because lots of people will be using it every day for a few years!

10:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, not to sound like the noob here (I've only ever played WoW and D2 as far as MMo's go.)
But, is it not the point of the certain classes having healing abilities, for them to heal?
I know, I had dreams of being the "scepter"-wielding menace with those destructive auras/shield smite (d2) when I rolled a WoW pally, but given the setup of the game, healers heal, that's how it works.
Say you're in the army right, and you get shot, but everyone only has the ability to kill others. (No combat medics/doctors...etc.)
This ends up becoming a war of attrition, with both sides suffering serious losses. So, in summation, I'll say, if you're unhappy healing, reroll.

Guiseppe
70 Holy Paladin, Aerie Peak (US)

9:01 PM  

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