09 March, 2007

The Definition of Absurdity

In this thread where the OP brings up the fact that all Death and Taxes Paladins are 41/20/0 specced (fyi: I am too!) this list is brought up by Nidhog from DnT:
Our warriors tank
Our paladins heal
Our druids heal
Our priests DPS
Our rogues DPS
Our hunters DPS
Our warlocks DPS
Our mages DPS
Our shamans heal
The only real primary healing class in the game doesn't heal? Nidhog adds, "we have 2-3 shadow priests and usually bring them because their utility + DPS is unmatched". And truth be told from my own experience, he's spot on. Shadow Priests are an incredible value to a raid because they both provide good DPS, healing and mana regeneration. I prefer being in the same party as one because I know it will aid healing my party and give me mana back.

In the end though, doesn't this strike you as a bit of a whack situation? The non-hybrid class is better at being a hybrid than the hybrids. The one top-of-the-line healing class is asked to not heal. I find the whole thing completely absurd.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Priests are hybrids just like warriors are hybrids.

warriors are tank/dps hybrids
priests are healing/dps hybrids

paladins got the short end of the stick when we were made healing/tank hybrids. tank and healers have bad dps.

1:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That guild must have like no fun what so ever

1:38 AM  
Blogger Vaelin said...

While we're all speccing 41/20/0 or slight variations thereof, why not just dump your current professions and level up tailoring. All Paladins should specialize in Primal Mooncloth, and wear it in endgame. Fun is irrelevant. Guild progress is essential.

2:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

31/30 myself. I may not be able to dps, but at least I can tank dammit.

3:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People are missing the point. For a guild like DnT, their 'fun' is world first and pretending that those firsts matter. That's not the issue here.

A guild like DnT min/maxs to the extreme. As such, it's a good indicator of how strong or weak talent specs are in the raiding environment. This show how bad Blizzard messed shaman/druids/paladins up. In a min/max world the main healing class should not be speccing in their damage tree. Also, classes like shaman/druids/paladins shouldn't have their healing tree be their strongest tree.

2:29 PM  
Blogger Micah said...

Agreed with Anonymous (at least put in a name so that I can actually have an idea who you are! =D).

It is fairly ridiculous that "the primary healing class" - Priests - are being asked to deal damage over, say, Elemental Shaman.

Wasn't this the year of the hybrid?

The Crux of the problem is always this:
If Paladins and Druids could tank as well as Warriors, why bring Warriors? The issue "per-encounter" tanking is silly. A Warrior with enough skill CAN tank anything. Period.

If Elemental Shamans could deal damage on par with Mages - why mages? (Something to point out here - they're apparently not dealing enough damage to be worthwhile DPSing compared to Shadow Priests who's attacks both damage and heal their party, and have a Shadowfiend to help restore mana).

Hybrids, generally, get the short end of the stick. Why? Because the makes don't want to step on the toes of the more "specialized" classes.

It's more of the same old crap, except now, Priests get to have fun. Will we have to wait until the next xpac for the real hybrids to be able to enjoy the endgame as anything but healers?

Waiting for WAR.

4:58 PM  
Blogger Lord said...

This isn't just a raid issue, it's for arenas too.

6:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is COMPLETELY bogus. Hybrids did not get the short end of the stick. Blizzard has completely messed up class balance in the expansion for ALL classes. Case in point? Warlocks deal higher damage from the safety of range than rogues from melee, all the while having soulstones for wipe-protectino, healthstones, an extra pet for CC, banish and other forms of utility that rogues simply cannot match. The balance between classes has never been so screwed up.

As a former 60 paladin rerolled 70 priest, I rolled a priest to HEAL and NOT to DPS. I feel useless in raids in holy/disc spec, whereas the holy/prot paladin outputs far higher healing efficiency, healing per second and healing longetivity than priests. I'd rather be in that paladin's shoes, being able to HEAL AND SUPPORT in PvE and PvP, rather than be sitting useless with my raid-spec.

In the time that I specced shadow on my priest, I HATED it. I hated being a stupid mana battery for the holy paladin through VT and VE (which returns mana due to spiritual attunement even when the paladin is at full health). I didn't play a MAIN HEALING class to be told I'm MORE USEFUL DPSING.

Screw that. My subscription has been cancelled ever since I learned of the priest nerfs, and there's no way I'm coming back until there's a SERIOUS overhaul in this entire game.

8:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe you have the wrong Death and Taxes guild linked. Nidhog is a part of the Korgath Death and Taxes. www.dtguilds.com is their website.

9:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

everyone is trying to find complex solutions for a simple problem. the shaman's best tree is NOT resto, and the same goes for druids. shaman have more utility as elemental, druids seem to be able to do much more spec'd feral. however the fact of the matter is the priest healing trees suck. worthless 31/41 point talents in holy, 41 point discipline talent only useful in very few circumstances . the shadow tree is simply the best tree

3:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmm... I've got a druid, and specced it Nature. It's probably the worst druid spec, since you should wear cloth, getting rid of your AC in the process, while you'll find yourself in melee often enough, if you solo. Your DPS is too low, and your mana.. Well, unless you stack up on cloth armours and very specialised two-handed weapons... Just don't bother.

I've also got a paladin. At only lvl 17, it's still the best support character I've ever had. With alchemy and first aid as profs, and holy as a spec, there's little you cannot heal, even at that level. Also, your buffs are good enough, but the potions grant a cutting edge that's simply absurd, when used by a holy pala.

My shaman is enhancement. Just for the hell of it; I want to play a shaman that can regrow mana like hell, using two daggers for attack speed on mana regen. It's great for shooting off all your mana in healing and totems, and shocks, and then standing next to the tank, deal massive damage with your daggers, and getting mana to proceed in spellblasting at the same time.

All in all: Hybrids are the most fun to play. Sure; they can't top the core specialists in their field, but by gods, you've got a lot of tricks up your sleeve. Tricks that provide another cutting edge. (Unless you're a druid. I played my druid Feral, at first, but got bored to death... Sometimes even literally. The respec simply means I died a lot sooner.)

Now, as for damage by priests: yes, it is awesome. It beats the crap out of just about anything, and you're a great mana recoverer at the same time. But if you want to go healer, I really do suggest take paladin. None-interruption while casting, a shield ability for those do-or-die moments, and especially respectively high healing vs. low mana... Along with the possibility of wearing int+spi plate, which highly increase your survivability if you agro too much, or make another mistake. Or a shaman; reincarnate, was it, right? It's thé answer to every wipe.

I agree it's sad to see priests being less in what they should do best. But there's a think like roleplay, too. Why not create a paladin character, and call it a priest? That way, you're still a priest, but you have pala-skills instead.

6:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well,i think it's kinda balanced,and Shadow priests are very good to have BUT! BuT,they will never replace an healer,and if an raid/group is looking for an healer,the shadow priest is very weak.
I wanted to say this,because an Holy paladin would fit good for an healer,while the Shadow priest will cry when he never got that invite.

4:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

heh, still this game is all about gear, even shadow priest can heal ok... i was shadow until recently and had no problems healing in instances. but i do admit it's alot easier to heal with holy. it's talents that determin your way of playin. i respeced after god damn nerf...

2:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guys if we look at the paladins DPS and a Shadow priest dps then i say to u that Paladins could throw em self on the walls.. they pretty much sucks on dpsing lol.. Shadow priest is best dpser in the game what i think lol.. all mc,zg,aq20,onyxia i have been nr1 dpser + i was in top 10 healing list and nr1 at Overhealing :P, Still Even that we do dps we also heal and i dont think bpaladin can do that can they? no.. Seriously there can be holy priest but shadow priest is acctually better than mage's. Havent played an instance when im dpsing and im nr1 well i got much to say but dont got time.. gonna go pwn with my shadow priest :D maybe kill som loladins..

8:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Try to heal as priest, hah, you get less aggro as DPS

12:33 PM  
Anonymous cogo said...

imo best option would be allowing paladins to wear ONLY mail or plate, no cloth for loladin! no no no! (ofc same with other classes)shadow priest should be nerfed, coz they r way 2overpowered in dpsing ^_^ priest is just not funny joke... they should be healers not uber killers -.-'
thx, greetings

4:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

my main class is an elemental shaman 40/11/10, when i go to an instance or raid the damage meter always puts me on top mostly i get about 30% of the damage sometimes more sometimes less but it doesnt matter what classes im with im always on top even rogues mages and locks cant keep up with me so why put a shaman on healing? if you let him do DPS hes allot more usefull and he can also help the party get back mana or health with his totems do a little buffing of agilty and strenght or windfury in my opinion elemental and enhancement shamans are allot more usefull

PS one thing i cant keep up with though is a affliction lock their DPS is enormous

so there you have it? and btw in my opinion all your members sound more like bots then individual players

5:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paladins heal better than Priests.

More HPS, more HPM and with spiritual attunement more Manareg when a Shadow is in Group.

Only thing left for Priests is deal damage, cause Pallies heal much better.

4:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IMO priest should always be left to shadow. i have shadow priest and my dps is insane. not only that but Vampiric Embrace is godly when added on top of the heals from another player. i say shadow becuase that way you contribute significantly to the dps and you can contribute a substantial amount of heals.

3:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IMO priest should always be left to shadow. i have shadow priest and my dps is insane. not only that but Vampiric Embrace is godly when added on top of the heals from another player. i say shadow becuase that way you contribute significantly to the dps and you can contribute a substantial amount of heals.

3:42 PM  

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