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BluetrackerThe Big Question
It's funny to look at the mass of posts on the Pally forum. Most of them regarding Eyonix's comment that Paladin burst DPS needs to be toned down.
And in what way were these (scrapped) change supposed to fix it? It did nothing to reduce our burst DPS. Hell, if they did anything, it was improving our burst DPS through increasing Avenging Wrath for 10 seconds.
Blizzard feels like nerfing us on something that nobody really thinks or thought needed nerfing and they nerf it by buffing what they wanted to nerf and instead nerf what they didn't intended to be nerfed. Ironically if they changed BoP mechanics slightly our nerf would've really been a buff!
So, anyone know what the heck that's going on?
And in what way were these (scrapped) change supposed to fix it? It did nothing to reduce our burst DPS. Hell, if they did anything, it was improving our burst DPS through increasing Avenging Wrath for 10 seconds.
Blizzard feels like nerfing us on something that nobody really thinks or thought needed nerfing and they nerf it by buffing what they wanted to nerf and instead nerf what they didn't intended to be nerfed. Ironically if they changed BoP mechanics slightly our nerf would've really been a buff!
So, anyone know what the heck that's going on?
posted by Mastgrr at 7:29:00 AM
10 Comments:
Seems like theyre itching to nerf us... they just aren't sure how yet. Which is pretty annoying, since being told you're going to be nerfed is almost as bad as actually receiving said nerf.
It's just a really confusing time to be a ret paladin, if the ret tree exists, and it's purpose is to do damage, I cant see why theyre upset when we do damage.
It boggles the mind.
Please be aware though that damage is different from burst damage. For example the nerf to Crusader Strike from 6 to 10 seconds wasn't a nerf to burst, but a nerf to sustainable/consistent damage.
it was probably a ruse to get us to take the md-ds autotarget nerf more smoothly. slimy bastards
Upcoming nerf:
SoComm procs now crit for 150%, or will not crit at all.
Spelldamage no longer applies to SoComm or JoComm.
But, we'll get a buff!
New 61 point talent in the Holy Tree:
Holy Crap - You gain ten levels.
"Spec Holy, Noobs!"
When Blizzard says they want to nerf "burst damage", they're basically saying "We need to nerf SoComm again".
Expect any incoming "burst damage" nerf to target Seal of Command/Judgement of Command.
the problem lies in the fact that the entire ret tree is based on burst damage. i mean, it makes us crit often with a massive two hander, right? and allows us to deal stupid damage if our proc goes off and then crits, followd by CS.
the main problem is that, apparently, one could bubble oneself, run over to a clothie, or anyone else, and if the stars aligned you could crit your melee swing, proc and crit command, and then hit them with CS (which could also crit) and lastly stun and judge command on them, which could also crit, for a grand total of some huge number that i'm not even going to estimate. but it's huge.
if they want to reduce the burst of the ret tree, they'd have to redesign the entire talent tree. everything in it enhances our burst damage. SoC is a burst damage seal. criting with a massive two hander is kinda bursty. stun-judging SoC is bursty. we rely on random procs that might crit for the lion's share of our damage, and if it is too huge, then many things need to change.
maybe they were trying to prevent the offensive usage of divine shield, so that you could only use it as an 'oh shit' ability as opposed to a 'nyah nyah i cannot be touched i'ma critchoo and perhaps kill you if the planets align'. i can see that. however, they also made it a terrible idea to BoP anyone, ever, and made avenging wrath a bad idea to use, not that it already isn't in a pvp setting.
anyway, if they do make ret less bursty, and scale up sustained damage instead, i wouldn't mind, honestly. but if they just nerf our damage, i'm leveling my lolsmite priest up. 3k smite crits are serious business.
the problem lies in the fact that the entire ret tree is based on burst damage. i mean, it makes us crit often with a massive two hander, right? and allows us to deal stupid damage if our proc goes off and then crits, followd by CS.
the main problem is that, apparently, one could bubble oneself, run over to a clothie, or anyone else, and if the stars aligned you could crit your melee swing, proc and crit command, and then hit them with CS (which could also crit) and lastly stun and judge command on them, which could also crit, for a grand total of some huge number that i'm not even going to estimate. but it's huge.
if they want to reduce the burst of the ret tree, they'd have to redesign the entire talent tree. everything in it enhances our burst damage. SoC is a burst damage seal. criting with a massive two hander is kinda bursty. stun-judging SoC is bursty. we rely on random procs that might crit for the lion's share of our damage, and if it is too huge, then many things need to change.
maybe they were trying to prevent the offensive usage of divine shield, so that you could only use it as an 'oh shit' ability as opposed to a 'nyah nyah i cannot be touched i'ma critchoo and perhaps kill you if the planets align'. i can see that. however, they also made it a terrible idea to BoP anyone, ever, and made avenging wrath a bad idea to use, not that it already isn't in a pvp setting.
anyway, if they do make ret less bursty, and scale up sustained damage instead, i wouldn't mind, honestly. but if they just nerf our damage, i'm leveling my lolsmite priest up. 3k smite crits are serious business.
Tbh no paladins need a nerf. DS can only be used offensively by Paladins spec'd Retribution, an offensive talent tree. So why is there a problem? Holy, Prot and Ret all use it for healing aswell, but who can blame a paladin if a clothie is standing nearby with no means of protection as he/she bubbles.. i did it as a Ret pally and so have thousands of others.
Burst Damage is how the Paladin has dealt damage throughout WoW.. wether it was with the older version of Reckoning.. or the even older version of Reckoning or wether it was just great SoC and JoC crits. Giving the Ret Paladin an instant strike was to make the Ret Pally a little less luck based and also higher the dps of the Paladin.
So what is so bad about a Paladin doing burst damage every now and then when a Mage is constantly pumping out crits about 4k and up?
Aren't we meant to be Holy Warriors? or are Blizz still trying to pin us down on the healing role.
I was horrified when they said something of nerfing burst damage. Considering, as you said, be our only type of "dps". A good portion of the DPS in an instance run is made in those "bursts" rather than any kind of "slow controlled" DPS. And any real DPS pala is ret, sry =P
As you say, they have to remodel the entire idea to lower burst, and not "just making ret tree totally useless". More lower dmg skills like CS, a few non-talent such and much else. Or remove SoC and add dual wield, add one-handed sword dmg (instead or or addition to 2-hander) and more +hit.
Still, that dont fit with existing gear... Then again, I dont think we'll ever see such a good balanced pvp gear like old Avenger's from AQ..
Bottom line is, if they truly want to lower burst damage without totally break 1/3 of the talents, there needs to be some serious changes! Both in talents and itemization...
Sorry for reposting..
I just cant muster the power to have yet another "underground" paladin community like last time (when paladinsucks started) and be opressed and not listened to by Blizz once more. If they really decide to break our class AGAIN, I might actually consider stopping playing...
Here's a crazy idea.
Remove SoC alltogether, thus in effect forcing the use of SoR/SoV/SoB. A PvP'er will then use SoR and imo that could use a buff then. Maybe have the imp SoR give additional JoR crit damage or something.
Instead of SoC, give paladins this 2 pts talent "every point of str gives 1/2 additional AP"
So every 1 str now means 3 AP, or 4 AP if 2 talent points were invested. Put this talent at like tier 5 and only Ret palas will have it... honestly, only Ret palas strive for gear with Str anyway. :P
Would love to see some moves too.
Sanctity aura to Holy, imp SoR to Ret, and move Deflection to Prot. Put these a bit down in the trees and voila, specialization in a tree would then actually mean something.
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