03 June, 2006

Survivability?

Brad just sent me an email that his colleague just got back from his 5-month deployment in Iraq (bless both you guys' service) and his friend told him that he had just PVP:d and "Paladins are a lot easier to kill than they were before I left" and then asks what happened?

Good question. Was the Forbearance debuff really that large of a nerf? Are we really so much easier to kill than before?

8 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

is the debuff a nerf or were we overpowered without it. i dont think it was a true nerf but a fix. i am curious what class this guy is, that is slaughtering pallies. also what pallies he is fighting ? With that i will add that "the gear does not make the man, its the man that makes the gear". just because he may or may not have been fighting some geared pallies does not mean they are skilled. at the same time, he may have got some pallies that are not regulars to pvp/dueling. there are a lot of unknowns, but imo the pally class is not easier to kill. there is a reason why most of the time we are crowd controlled in battles till the end, then slaughtered..hehe.. with the right gear/build we can go on and on and on and ... well u know.. but just my 2 cents.. sinnful, lvl 60 pally, norgannon

12:11 PM  
Blogger Valandur said...

He is pretty much a horde-only player. He has a level 60 shaman, a level 60 rogue and a level 42 priest.

I remember that he and the other two horde players used to say that Paladins were the bane of their existence in PvP. Now they mostly just laugh at me.

2:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shamans are so easy to wipe floor with tbh.

4:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paladins are a lot less survivable, it's not only forbearance (which was a huge nerf) but the mana usage to run our offense.

Before we would just cast rank 1 SoC. The mana cost was so low (48) that it left a lot more mana for us to heal with. Now, we are constantly casting the highest rank of Crusader, judging it, then casting rank 5 SoC, and likely judging that. All for a minor DPS increase.

Oh, and to the poster above forbearence wasn't a 'pvp fix', it was put in because paladins were chain BoP'ing some class in a BWL encounter which gave the alliance an unfair advantage.

It was the same thing with improved lay on hands on test. They didn't care when the armor bonus lasted longer for pvp, what they didn't like is paladins were just casting it on the MT before boss fights just for the buff.

6:43 PM  
Blogger Thoma said...

And you have to add in mudflation. New gear has made exsisting abilites much stronger but Paladin DPS stills don't scale with it. Before you could keep pace but now you get hit faster then you can heal.

10:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The forbearance nerf was too high a cost for an additional ~350 damage every minute. Not to mention a nerf to burst damage (though DPS is supposedly the same). As far as I know that is the only offensive buff pallies got in exchange for the debuff. I mean it would've fine if JoC could deal full damage every time. I mean it's 300 damage every 10 seconds? As opposed to 500 every 5-6 secons? Yes, I'm talking about shocks.

If chain casting was a problem why couldn't it just last 15 seconds? IMO the pally review = nerf in disguise. Not only that but it destroyed my favorite build with the lame talent shuffle.

6:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The forbearance nerf was too high a cost for an additional ~350 damage every minute. Not to mention a nerf to burst damage (though DPS is supposedly the same).

My DPS came out slightly higher with ret, it went from 165-185 to 185-215. I don't get burst DPS like I used to ever though. The extra dps wasn't worth the loss of burst damage, mana efficency and survivability.

As far as I know that is the only offensive buff pallies got in exchange for the debuff. I mean it would've fine if JoC could deal full damage every time. I mean it's 300 damage every 10 seconds?

160-180 damage every 10 seconds, 343 if we stun (ie once a minute, twice with repetence).

If you manage to judge crusader, run sanctity aura, stun and judge you can get slightly higher numbers. What everyone overlooks about this is the mana cost, which is about 460 not including the base calculation for judgement. That is all mana in that would have been used for healing in the past, and you end up getting about 460 damage for it on non crit with all that stuff done.

As opposed to 500 every 5-6 secons? Yes, I'm talking about shocks.

If chain casting was a problem why couldn't it just last 15 seconds? IMO the pally review = nerf in disguise. Not only that but it destroyed my favorite build with the lame talent shuffle.


Yeah, I think it pretty much was a nerf, and it destroyed the two most popular talaent builds at the time (31 ret with divine favor, and 31 prot with seal of command). It did improve our healing though, but I'd rather have our pre patch offense.

12:32 PM  
Blogger Brian said...

I have had several arguments with others about the so-called survivability of the Paladin. It is my contention that the Paladin's survivability is no greater than that of a Warrior. While the Paladin has the bubble and heals, the Warrior has tools that will decrease their opponent's DPS.

Furthermore, the Warrior will kill their opponent faster, there by increasing the survivability.

Also, if the Warrior needs to retreat, he gets the skills to aid his retreat, including hamstring, intimidating shout, and piercing howl.

It is my observation that the reason most Paladins are the last ones standing in a raid is that they lack the ability to draw any aggro to them (their low DPS and their heals generating little aggro). I find that if I pull aggro from the tank, I will go down just as fast as anyone else.

7:24 PM  

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