30 March, 2006

Forum lurkers' delight

- Malthus has assembled a nice undocumented changes list.

- Malonik makes a good argument why Relics function the way they do, and why they're not just +stat items:
Hybrid itemization in this game, in particular item sets, already take into account 2 factors:

1) That hybrids cannot equip ranged items such as wands, bows and rifles and thus cannot benefit from the stats offered by said items

2) Hybrids require more stats than pure classes (such as rogues, for whom intellect and spirit are useless) as they can benefit from each and every stat.

As a result, current in-game items for hybrids ARE OVERBUDGETED in comparison with their non hybrid counter parts. If you parse the budget points spend in the tier 1 and 2 sets, Hybrids sets offer more stats than the other sets.

In other words: Don't expect more from this relics. Don't expect 'Haxxxorz relic of the eagle' with +10 stamina and +10 intellect, because it would be overpowered.

This relic are a small bone thrown by Blizzard so that hybrids can finally get rid of Egan's Blaster. They are already great for what they are; do not ask for more and be happy you have them.
- Satha explains what changed in 1.10 and how proccing is affected. No longer can you proc with two things (seal, enchant, judgement, weapon, etc) on the same swing. Interesting read.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've said it once and I'll say it again, the only reason why hybrids seems to get more stats overall is because the itemisation system gives a higher 'item points' total when the stats are concentrated on one or two stats rather than three or four. Check out any standard green item with only one stat compared to one with two stats to see this. This is nothing to do with hybrids - the item values for all items has been calculated in the forums quite a few times, and they are all fair - i.e. hybrids don't get any better items in other stats just because we can't equip ranged items.

Therefore - the current crop of relics are quite disappointing. We should in fact get more stats than the non-hybrids in these slots, but spread out over more stats as per the rest of the itemisation.

9:37 AM  
Anonymous Leord said...

Also read Theras post on the second page of the relics post. Unfortunately I can post in the US boards..

I am apalled by the -25 on cleanse coming from AQ40. I seriously though it whould be some of the "crap" Librams from BRD or the like. Even worse it takes up item slots for "real" items.


The Judgement set is 26.62 "points" over budget for an ilvl 76 set.

The Wrath set is 16.66 "points" over budget for an ilvl 76 set.

Can Warriors equip ranged weapons? Let's keep in mind that an ilvl 76 ranged weapon would have roughly 40.75 "points" available, that would mean Paladins get 30 to work with if our sets are indeed grossly overbudget (though in reality the difference is roughly 1%). Also keep in mind that the formula is reverse-engineered, and will not be 100% accurate.

Given those limitations we could get a Libram that grants us say, 8 stamina and 10 damage and healing to spells and effects, and it wouldn't be overpowering at all. Or if we wanted to go with the full nearly 41 points, 10 stamina and 15 damage/healing would be acceptable.

11:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the pala -20 seal cost is quite nice imho. if you solo, you cast the seal, judge and recast somethin else. thats 2 seals about every 30 seconds, 80 mana saved per minute. that equals 6.7 mana/5. imho thats quite nice. the cleansing one from fankriss is even more powerful, but quite situational (e.g. chromaggus).

4:52 PM  
Blogger Thoma said...

The relics don't wow me. In my raiding gear I'm at 8k mana buffed. By the time I get to AQ40 I expect to be at closer to 8.5k or 9k mana. I don't need -25 mana to cleanse. Most of the Paladins in AQ40 don't need it. As much as the horde are whining about it, it doesn't make a differance.

-20 seals is okay but as was pointed out, it's only 6.7 mana/5. That's not anywhere near as good to me as good wand or gun.

And +55 mana...1.5 hp/2 mins. According to the math on one of the posts on the forum, that's what most plate wearers would get. Jokes.

7:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a result, current in-game items for hybrids ARE OVERBUDGETED in comparison with their non hybrid counter parts

This is pure theorycraft. The soulforge gauntlets were nerfed because warriors realized they had more stats than the warrior gloves and complained.

as anonymous 1 mentioned, the more stats an item has, the more they are budgeted. However Hybrid items are NOT given any extra points.

2:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tsaric says the proc problem is a bug:



3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think maybe you need to understand how the "budget" works before you start getting too excited. Just counting the stats does not constitute the actual budget. There's actually a BlizzCon slide somewhere that explains this well. It says something along the lines of 12 of one stat = +8 to one stat and +8 to another. In other words, for every additional point to a stat it "costs" more than the previous. This makes it so that a hybrid item with 20 stats on them is equal to an item with just 15 to stamina.

12:58 AM  

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