16 October, 2006

"Avenger's Shield" More Like "Avenger's Suck" And Other Ramblings...

Theris has made a very comprehensive post. The general consent right now is that it's a very poor ability and only useful for pulling mobs. Kinda sad since I was really pepped for speccing Protection for the expansion. I was relieved that once and for all I could go Prot and not feel like I was missing out of anything from Retribution thanks to being able to throw shields and wtfpwn mobs.

The problems that Theris bring up is basically everything: High Mana Cost, Low Damage Yield, Dead Zone, Cast Time, Spell Crit and Long Cooldown. Doesn't sound good. Not at all.

But now with Crusader Strike and the fact that Avenger's Shield pales in comparison, Protection is once again looking like it's not that good anymore. Also consider the fact that Weapon Expertise is just completely out of the loop...increases white damage (which Imp. One-Handers already does) through reducing glancing blows when our aggro is based on Holy damage?

Retribution is great now. You can really tell that Blizzard spent the most time on this tree. Why? It's got 8 new talents versus the two other trees who only got six. And the Ret 41st is really good.

I'd really like to see Protection polished up first because it really needs the least amount of work. It's got lots of retooling so far but it still needs to be fleshed out more. Make Weapon Expertise better or just completely change it to something else. Just give Protection Pallies more Holy damage options.

After that they need to increase the attractiveness of the top tiers of Holy. I really hope Blizzard focuses a lot on this tree because right now it's the least attractive one. One thing that really disappoints me is that there's not enough focus on healing. There's just too many weird abilities: disease and curse resistance together with Consecration and Cleanse cost reduction. What's up with that? That doesn't have anything to do with healing!

Give Holy something that boosts Holy damage or improves healing even more. Improved Blessing of Light or an Improved Flash of Light that decreases casting time by 0.1 seconds or so, is stuff that I'd like to see.

14 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, I've been reading this blog for a loooooong time.
I almost always agree, but I must say; I find this a whine post.

Improved weapon skills are going to be needed if you want to tank higher level mobs.
I don't think the 10 man raid instances will feature level 70 bosses, think more like level 80.
In any case, low weapon skills == lots of misses. You miss, your SoR won't proc. AKA you don't hold shit for aggro. I'd even go so far as to say you'd better take this over one handed weapon spec.

As for the shield. It's an opening move. The daze will support other classes. And heck, it gives you a chance to grab someone in pvp. Do you still remember how insanely happy we all were when we got a non-talented ranged attack!? HoW ftw! Well... you just got another one. I'd only be happy with it as protection spec.

The paladin class is seriously looking up. Don't go piss all over what "could" be better now. I think the dev's made a good call. It's far more original than some strike that generates aggro. And they would have gotten away with that easily...

11:45 AM  
Anonymous Garreth said...

Meh, I'm still going 31/0/40. Holy Shock + Sanct Aura + Vengeance = Very happy 15 second paladin!

12:06 PM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

Doesn't it work like repetence but on 3 people, and doing damage? That is why the mana cost is so high, in pvp an AoE Mez is probably going to be pretty good. I have to agree about the cast time/cooldown issue..if it's on a 30 second cooldown, it should be insta-cast.

Cleanse has plenty to do with holy, since holy is about pvp support/spell casting to me. Blessed life will probably be the best new pvp survival talent we've recieved, and lights grace will be most welcome as well in pvp.

The top of holy was far and away the best top of any of the trees before crusader strike.

Protection looks pretty nice to me, as does holy. Really before crusader strike, ret looked like the worst tree of all. More importantly, the trees are very, very well defined now.

3:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's not an AOE mez - it's a 3 target daze, meaning it will work like Concussive Shot.

3:48 PM  
Anonymous Jakob said...

First, the resists and cleanse mana cost are 2 different talents...
-------------
Pure of heart
Increases your resistance to curse and disease effects by 5%
-------------
Purifying power
Reduces the mana cost of your cleanse and Consecration spells by 5% and increases the critical strike chance of exorcism and holy wrath spells by 10%
------------
Second, the holy tree is a mix of spell damage paly talents and healing talents (and blowoff talents like Pure of heart). It's mostly healing/PVE type talents but there's some nice things in there to make you less gimp in pvp if you're already deep in the tree, which is good if you're on a pvp server cause you don't have to be scared of every class that jumps you in the wild.... just the classes that aren't warriors or rogues...

6:22 PM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

It's not an AOE mez - it's a 3 target daze, meaning it will work like Concussive Shot.

ahh shit, I thought it was a mez effect a-la repetence on 3 targets. Concussive shot is kinda the same way though, isn't it?

6:31 PM  
Anonymous snow said...

new paladin libram here:
http://worldofraids.free.fr/bc/items/hellfire-citadel/LibramofSaintsDeparted.jpg

7:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't get it, for years (?) this site was against the buffbot that paladins were in World of Warcraft and now you cry out for even more healing power? Hell fucking no ! Holy is still a viable tree, but so is protection and retribution in the expansion.

Ok, so the 41 prot talent is something that you use to PULL since we LACK the ability to use ranged weapons to pull and Exocisme doesn't work on all mobs. So what if you're not a damage machine? We got retribution for that. Can't have everything in 1 thing damnit.

About holy, I've talked to die-hard holy paladins that are testing the beta atm and eventhough we do not receive additional healing spells, they say that going deep into holy will give you the best supportive abilities. Sure you got things like pure of hearth, that reduce the amount of mana you might have to waste/removes a small margin of possible downtime and extra crit rating on your demon/undead slaying abitlites to grinding in outland, but in the end there are other abilities that improve our supportive abilities.

Anyway, I was very surprised to read a demand to buff holy so that it's back way above the other trees so we basicly stay nothing more then a buffbot on this site. Jesus christ what were you people thinking?

7:40 PM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

There was a talent update once again:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=34925108&postId=347420658&sid=1

8:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I sorta think Avengers shield is pretty good as it is. It has a lot of PvP versatility, and should be good and dealing a significant amount of aggro on several mobs during a pull. It seems like a fun 41 pointer to me. If Prot needs changing, it should be to give more holy damage options (instead of weapon expertise and Imp 1hnd) and some better anti-caster skills. The return of Imp Seal of Justice?

11:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why would paladins need Avenger's Shield to pull when a hunter can do it even better given Misdirection?

12:00 AM  
Anonymous Vaelin said...

I don't think AS is that bad of a talent. The high mana cost needs to be taken into consideration in light of its ability to hit up to 3 targets for 700ish damage (around 2100 total). As a pulling spell, the daze will give your CC that much more time to tie up adds before they get to the party. With Improved Righteous Fury, you'll be grabbing a good amount of initial aggro as well. People looking at it as if it were intended to be a huge damage buff are bound to be disappointed. It's a fun spell that will no doubt have its uses in PvP and PvE.

I'll have to admit I was seriously considering speccing deep into Protection after seeing this and a variety of other abilities in the tree. The small buff to Sanctified Crusader and addition of Crusader Strike, though, may keep me heavily into Retribution. Chances are, I'll try a variety of builds over time.

12:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Personally, I would've liked to see AS to compete with CS.

Kind of like how warriors have MS for arms, shield slam for Protection, and Bloodthirst for fury. Though only arms and fury really have competitive 31 pointers.

You would have your shield throwing pallies and your striking pallies. 30 kind of sucks for PvP make it 15 at least. It's a great pulling spell, but hunters are already good pullers... you know their ability to wipe their aggro really helps in that.

8:35 AM  
Anonymous Krysta said...

Well usually in most boss encounters, when a Hunter pulls to the group, the Warrior taunts it off the Hunter. It should be possible, given the range of Rightous Defense, to Taunt the Target as the Hunter comes near, and then toss an Avenger's Shield for a boost of Holy damage.

Use your imagination people, it's still a good talent, for PvP, grinding, and even raids, it'll have it's purpose, even if it doesn't solve everything.

11:37 PM  

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