07 April, 2006

A list of everything, and a celebration of nothing.

Schwick just emailed me and said he had updated his comprehensive list of what's coming in 1.11 and beyond. It's one of the best reads you can do if you're interesting in what's up-and-coming. Awesome work!

Oh, and if you've noticed, the counter now above hit 100 days! Hooray!

But... What's there to celebrate about?

It's been so long I can't say I even remember the actual question anymore. The link above to the original post is so old it's broken. The thread doesn't exist anymore. Thank god though for BlueTracker with which I quickly found the original post:
So, this was said at Blizzcon:


And yet you are now telling us that the devs say our place *IS* at the back of the raid group, healing/cleansing?
Note: He's referring to this post where Caydiem said, "Regarding raids, it's a simple social fact that if a class has a heal spell, they'll be asked to heal in a raid...". Anyways, moving on:
I just am trying to understand why there is some sort of internal disconnect at Blizz...

We've never had problems being "at the front" on 1-59 content before, and early 60 stuff, as well. It's always been the later L60 stuff (which, for most of us, is the majority of the game) that has brought on the "you live in the back of the pack" situation.

Maybe you don't have an answer, but then could you point this out to the devs, at least?

Thanks for reading,

And this is what Caydiem gave as a response:
I'll mention it to them and see if I can get an explanation, but it may not be for a while given the time.
"Quite for a while", excuse me for saying this; ROFL. She was true to her word on that, that's for sure.

But alas, she has left us. Maybe someone who's strong enough could ask if we'll get the answer to our question soon. Maybe Eyonix will give it to us?

Just so you know, I will still have that counter up and have it link to the original thread for as long as the question remains unanswered.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

err, I *think* why CMs dont wanna come to our forums now ...

Fangtooth tried ... Moved on
Caydiem tried ... Moved on
Emonix trying ... hopefully wont ..

10:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Still hoping Blizzard pulls their heads out of their asses and assigns someone who actually has a lvl 60 Paladin to be our CM.

5:25 PM  
Blogger Brian said...

If memory serves, this was about the time I went medieval and blasted Cay and Blizzard about the 1.9 review and got banned from the boards for three days.

Everytime I see that response my blood boils. Not because of the reponse that Paladins heal, but how completely and utterly BS the response is.

I've played a few classes to 60 besides Paladins and I've never seen a class role change for end game content. Warriors tank and DPS, Druids heal and tank, Mages use AoE spells, Priests heal. Only the Paladin goes from being a melee class to a healing class.

No only was it a bad response, it was insulting. Did she really expect us to accept that when it was untrue on it's face? Like I said, even now, when I see that response, I get furious.

Now, I'm disappointed. It appears that Blizzard just plans to pacify the Paladin community. Eyonix promised a bunch of improvements for tanking and then nothing. If anything, we've been nerfed and we get no response from any Blizzard employee.

11:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're misinterpreting what's being said. What's being said is that PLAYERS want paladins at the back of the raid because they have a heal spell and healing is usually in high demand (though not to say that is typical of every guild). Regardless of what the devs tweak, this will continue to remain true. Even shamans stand by and just heal too y'know. Only if the devs decide to remove Holy Light and maybe put something else in its place will people put paladins at the front.

12:45 AM  
Anonymous Nonnobis said...

Anonymous, I beg to differ regarding your assertion "Only if the devs decide to remove Holy Light and maybe put something else in its place will people put paladins at the front," unless you meant for the "something else" to be a damaging strike or the like. In MC and above, paladin DPS is too low to merit the mana required to keep them alive during boss fights.

What would be great? Make us even MORE able to pour mana into damage, in our currently inefficient way, so when we want to crank out some DPS we sacrifice our healing abilities.

Simple trade of damage/survivability.

I sort of do this already with my holy/ret build, but a shorter Holy Shock cooldown or something like that would be a step in the right direction.

I simply adore being a holy mage in the undead instances, and wish I could do more of the same to all mobs.

3:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just my two cents,

I've played exactly two classes to level 60: paladin and shaman. I also played a hunter, warrior, and priest to the low 40's. With my paladin, I amassed tons of healing and Ret' gear for different roles, and tried every build. Despite that I found the class lack luster and broken when compared to every other class and the dynamics of combat that all other classes share. I PvP'd my ass off, trying various strategies and even attempted to emulate the famous reck-bombers and all-out support guys who’s videos are now lore. After months of PvP I ended up at rank 4. I never felt like I was doing much for the effort, mainly because of the lack of survivability in PvP and the lack on instant attacks (yes, paladins are not very survivable due to their puny arsenal and easily countered and unpredictable seal/judgement system). Even after 1.9 it remained the same.

My shaman? I never had to respec, not once. I went Enhancement for the extra defense and dumped the rest in Elemental for the more powerful shocks, faster shocks, and better Nova totem. I was rank 8 by the time I got to level 52 PvP'n extremely casually (twice a week, sometimes three times a week, for an hour or two at a time). Hell, I even went a week without playing at all. I finally felt like I had a class that truly meshed with the way the game was designed.

End game, my shaman melee's and heals when he has too, stays at the top of the damage charts after the epic geared mages and hunters. He has rank 8 PvP gear, a few blues, decent weapon, and even a green. My paladin? All he's good for is healing, blessing, and cleansing.

What was most striking was how easily paladins can be defeated regardless of gear, and how bad their prescence actually hurts their cause. I've taken down paladins in full purples with my shaman without even having to try all that hard. Granted, paladins can be a pain if they have a buddy with them, but than again, who isn't?

All in all, the paladin class needs a drastic overhaul to bring them up to par and make them actually mesh with the way Blizzard designed the game, especially for PvP.

Hayzeus, Taizong - Eonar
Cancelled around March 8th or so, expired a few weeks back.

11:47 PM  
Blogger Thoma said...

Shamans and Paladins both change a primary role (for most players) in the end game. With the exception of enhancement shammans and some holy paladins both groups become back of the group casters. The differance is that Shaman don't see themselves as front lines people for the most part.

Paladins are like feral druids. Shamans are like Balance druids. Most of them change thier roles in the end game but the differance becomes one of type of game play.

6:22 PM  

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