08 December, 2006

Change the Baseline Blessings

This guy is complainig about BoK and how raid leaders FORCE Pallies to spec for it. I completely agree with that. It's the same issue as Druids had with Innervate.

Here's my idea:

Make Blessing of Kings baseline at level 60.

Un-baseline Blessing of Light, add it in to the Aura Mastery talent.

16 Comments:

Anonymous nonnobis said...

OR: guilds, don't force your players into any build. Raids don't live and die by BoK.

Now, that said, we have plenty of prot paladins in my guild and rarely have to go without.

4:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't suppose he's the only pally in the raid group and one or the other would probably have chosen Prot Spec (especially now that its no longer gimped).

And about his argument of making BoK baseline, we already have Consecration as a baseline skill why do we need to ask for more? Let's just make every talent baseline and have it done with.

You spec a certain spec because you want to get better at certain areas. Because of this, you have to sacrifice one other area or another. I took Prot, and I sacrificed DPS (SoC) but you don't see me complaining why SoC is not baseline.

5:30 AM  
Blogger Mastgrr said...

And about his argument of making BoK baseline, we already have Consecration as a baseline skill why do we need to ask for more? Let's just make every talent baseline and have it done with.

You spec a certain spec because you want to get better at certain areas. Because of this, you have to sacrifice one other area or another. I took Prot, and I sacrificed DPS (SoC) but you don't see me complaining why SoC is not baseline.


Then I suppose there isn't anything bad with my suggestions? Basically BoK is being replaced by BoLight baseline, and those who spec Holy actually become considerably better healers than those who do not.

5:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about they base it and we keep everything we have now. WTH is with some of you that think you need to be nerfed to be buffed? Druids didn't lose anything when they gained Innervate. Likewise, neither did Rogues with Cloak of Shadows. Keep in mind both of these were 31 point talents.

6:42 AM  
Anonymous Soldrak said...

"Then I suppose there isn't anything bad with my suggestions? Basically BoK is being replaced by BoLight baseline, and those who spec Holy actually become considerably better healers than those who do not."

Yes there is - the fact that you haven't provided any justification whatsoever for this change other than the fact that raid leaders "force" pallies to spec BoK. If they are forcing you spec it, it doesn't mean it has to be baseline. It means, maybe you need to rethink your guild. If enough raid leaders are requiring it, then maybe its because its too powerful. And when a talent is too powerful, sometimes the solution is not to make it baseline but to reduce its effectiveness. If my stating this annoys you or pisses you off, then perhaps you research what the blues have said on this issue. They do not want talents to be must-haves, must-have talents tend to be overpowered.

In my view, you really should stop asking for things that aren't necessary. I believe Paladins are strong enough already. To ask for more is just pure and simple greed. I second what a previous poster said, maybe we should just make all talent abilities baseline abilities. That way nobody is 'forced' into anything, and as an added bonus Paladins can solo kill everyone in PvP and the Black Citadel. Yes by all means, lets continue to ask for things on the most silly, flimsy grounds because after all we play World of Warcraft and that's all people do in this game for shits and giggles.

2:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Soldrak... I'll just throw out a few words and maybe they'll make some sense to you.
Evocation.
Innervate.
Consecration.

Changed for the fun of changing? No, changed because they made up such a fundamental part of the class' identity that Blizzard realized an unreasonable high amount of the players felt compelled to spec for it.
Blizzard expressed their sentiment that players should be able to spec the way they want to play, and not be hampered by the need to have a specific talent that irrevocably leads to spending points on the prerequisite talents you never wanted in the first place.

Having Evocation didn't make or break my mage either, but it's soo much better having it... and not forcing me to spend points on filler talents to get it, lets me spec for the mage I want to be.

BoK trainable, change BoL to talent in Holy tree? Sounds good to me. BoK is nice allround so it could be baseline, if you have a holy Pala in party you would pretty much want him to bless BoL instead for the healing boost.

3:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i would choose Light over Kings anyday.. so keep BoK as talent n let a me (a ret pala) cast light on myself for survival.

6:30 PM  
Anonymous Suicidal Zebra said...

My only comment to make with making BoL have a talent requirement is that it is a pretty large nerf to Paladin base-line healing.

I wouldn't mind bringing BoK to the baseline, but that is mainly because I dislike raid-wide long-duration buffs being part of talent trees. Thus I would extent this idea to BoSanctuary and the priests Divine Spirit talent.

8:38 PM  
Blogger Mastgrr said...

Maybe due to the nerf of Pally baseline healing, other specs such as Retribution or Prot might get buffed in other aspects.

10:28 PM  
Anonymous Jade said...

Great issue, I've been debating it in my head for quite a while now and this is what I've come up with
Being forced to take kings isn't going to be as big of an issue in TBC since Prot is getting buffed anyway. However if you want your 41 point prot talent your going to have to get sanc and sanc will only ever be used if there are 4 pallies in a raid and 2 of them are prot.

Biggest problem with Kings is that even though it's a great buff...it's only ever useful as a 3rd buff. Might/Wisdom and Salvation/Light are just too good as main buffs.

Light I would hate to see get moved to a talent though, although I could live with it if they did. The main reason is that paladin's heals are already the weakest in the game. Granted they are the most mana efficient, but that doesn't change the fact that paladin healing was designed around having BoL up if they were going to do a significant amount of healing. I'd love to see our heals designed around NOT having it up if they moved it to a talent and then Holy paladins really could really shine as main healers up there with priests, druids and resto shaman. But as a tank/healing hybrid I think your really hurting the healing part by making light non-baseline and not reevaluating our healing capabilites.

This is what I mean, for those of you who haven't played at 60 horde side you may not get it
Your forming a 60 PuG Live Strat group and need a healer.

A 60 Priest messages you, do you worry about build, gear, skill at healing? No, the class is pretty capable by itself and he doesnt have to be really good to get you through.

A 60 Druid messages you, do you worry about build, gear, skill at healing? Other than making sure he knows he's the main healer that's about all you gotta do.

Your horde side and a 60 Shaman messages you, do you worry about build, gear, skill at healing? Is he resto? If so he's probably alright. Just make sure he has enough time to regen mana after fights.

Your alliance side and a 60 Paladin messages you, do you worry about build, gear, skill at healing? I would worry about all 3. Are you holy? What's your +heal? Have you main healed Live Strat before? Perfectly valid questions for a Paladin who wants to main heal.

12:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i was only healer for live strat as a ret pally and we did fine and i didnt even have any +healing and was trying to get lightforge BUT i did have long regen breaks inbetween fights and ofcourse i had done it before. point is i think any paladin makes a great healer and i do think that holy paladins already shine above ther rest of us with there ability to never be out of mana. free crit heals.. the ability to force a crit heal.. small but instant heal.. +% chance to crit with holy spells!

8:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Really tired of paladin players wanting to make changes so it benefits them only. It's as bad as the folk who say "Make the Bubble a 41 pt Holy!!!" so they can get more damage for their RetN00b builds.

Right now BoK is attainable at level 20, and is usable on more then 60 raids.

BoL is what allows our pathetic healing to help matter.

I see no need to change either. Stop trying to nerf other people to benefit you.

12:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, the Holy Paladin never running out of mana is a Myth.

12:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I main healed a successful 45-baron run with my holy/ret pally with mostly pre-ZG blues - the other 4 people were similarly geared. IMHO the first question shouldn't be what spec are you and what's your gear like? The first question should be, do you KNOW how to heal? Then, you can start examining gear to determine who would be a better main healer in cases where more than one healer comes along. Me and my feral druid friend (who's as skilled as a healer as me) have outhealed awesomely geared pallies, priests and druids in ZG, AQ20 and MC, because they had the gear, but not the skill to use it effectively.

Skill first, gear second IMHO.

11:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, Blessing of Light is needed for non-Holy spec'd Paladins -- are you crazy?

What is it with Paladins that we think we can't get something baselined without a severe nerf?

My druid got hurricane AND innervate with ZERO repurcussions.

12:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i agree with the guy above me n the guy above him

8:51 PM  

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