12 December, 2006

2.0.2 Tomorrow Mebbe?

Extended Maintenance scheduled.

Nerfed Crusader Strike and Vengeance, buffed Improved Righteous Fury and Divine Illumination together with Improved Resistance Auras replaced by Spell Warding and Improved Divine Shield replaced by Sacred Duty?

We'll see tomorrow.


Anonymous Vaelin said...

I really hope not. Just getting used to CS. It actually make the class fun. Bumping the cooldown to 10 seconds would flush it all down the crapper again for me.

6:15 AM  
Blogger Ghmou / Micah said...

Man, I hope so... Sorry Vaelin.

I believe that CS and Vengeance should stay as they are, but I'm lusting after Sacred Duty and the Improved Righteous Fury talents. Yum!!

That'd make my day.

There's still SOME hope, I think. Maybe this "mass beta" on the live servers will show Blizzard that CS/Veng isn't all that overpowered after all. Who knows?

9:46 AM  
Blogger Brian said...

I don't see how they figured that six seoncd CS and the 15% Vengence were overpowered in the first place.

I went on four raids this weekend, UBRS, Ony, MC, and ZG. My Paladin is 41/10 Ret/Protection.

In the UBRS raid, I was #2 damage dealer behind our completely epiced out Rogue and just ahead of a DPS Warrior. However, the rogue wasn't just a little ahead; he was 10% ahead. Meanwhile, the Warrior wasn't epiced out at all, but had a good mix of Blues. (Oh, and Elderin, my Pally, was uing 6/8 SF, the Judgement helm, the Zandalar BP, and the OEB). So, on the UBRS run, my Paladin was the #2 damage dealer (barely; I only caught the Warrior because he tanked one of the adds), I nearly got beat by a non-epic DPS Warrior.

In the Ony Raid, with 28 people, Elderin didn't heal at all and was #10 on the list. In the MC raid, with 40 people, Elderin was #19. In the ZG raid with 20, Elderin was #11.

My point is that while my Paladin is doing more damage than before, it's not like he's dominating the battle field.

I'm not seeing an overpowered class, but a well balaced class. In the ZG Raid, Elderin was #11 in damage and #9 in healing. Like a hybrid is supposed to be.

4:46 PM  
Anonymous Suicidal Zebra said...

In fairness Brian I think that the complaints center around Paladin burst damage (whilst using incorrect terminology) rather than Raid DPS (though i'd love to see a proper vid of a CS Paladin in Naxx using Exorcism liberally). The most common call right now is that Paladin's can do 4500 damage in the duration of a HoJ. That you need all the planets to align to get this sort of burst is apparently meaningless, as is the increase to stamina values due in TBC; we just can't allow Paladins that (or indeed any) sort of burst damage.

Personally, I'm unconvinced that paladin damage is more than it should be and once we hit 70 will no doubt be lower relative to other classes. That said, I also think that there is not much point in releasing the latest PTR build (with nerfed CS/Veng and buffed prot talents) because there is not the Paladin gear nor encounter which suit Paladin tanking as yet.

5:25 PM  
Blogger Thoma said...

I didn't video it but I did run Naxx as 10/0/41 build. I put out great DPS on the trash and Anub(10th on the damage meter) but what I found is that on Anub I had some serious mana issues. If you're going to be doing ret in 40 mans then you're going to have to invest in mana pots and look serious at mana/5 gear.

5:34 PM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

Actually, blizzard has already stated the reason for the vengence nerf and crusader strike nerf was because paladin raid DPS was too high at 70 (Think perma-vengence + avenging wrath). You could probably dig the post up on bluetracker.

I specifically remember them mentioning that paladins were outdpsing warlocks and hunters in raids during 'internal blizzard testing', which led me to bitch that warlocks and hunters don't have their pets out in raids, which could be the reason for paladins out dps'ing them.

The most annoying part is blizzard continues to balance this game around PvE first, and 5-10 person pvp a far second without any consideration to small group pvp (1-5 people), when most pvp encounters in this game are small group pvp when it comes down to it.

While I'll be slightly annoyed by this nerf when it comes down, it's not a huge deal to me since they left fanaticism alone. They could have at least added a little something to crusader strike in return for the nerf...like the old Unstoppable Force knockdown effect. ;)

6:04 PM  
Blogger Samownall said...

Hate it when your favourite class gets nerfed :( You need to have different characters so that when one gets nerfed, the other gets boosted ;)

Samownall WoW tips

6:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blizzard never stated that Paladins were outdpsing anyone. They simply said that Paladin DPS was not where they wanted it.

Using CS this past week I've noticed I rarely look at the dmg it's doing as I'm having more fun in combat with an ability that can be chained together with SoC+Judgements for a more interactive experience. 10 seconds will completely ruin this experience.

6:23 PM  
Blogger Brian said...

If the problem is with level 70s, then they should fix level 70s, not nerf every one down the line.

That makes about as much sense as Ford placing a speed regulator that reduces all car speeds by 10% on all the cars they make because the NASCAR Fords go to fast.

I love to see this so-called internal testing they do. Because as it stands right now, Paladins are a whole lot better balanced than ever before. They are a viable melee threat, healing threat, or tanking threat depending on the circumstances.

In the latest Rags fight, my Paladin was in the fight next to the rogues because he put out enough DPS to be a viable option rather than just sitting back and healing. That's the way it should be. If a Paladin is geared and specced for DPS, he should DPS.

6:30 PM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

The new patch is nerfing the honor gained by 30%. Hope everyone got their GM weapons already. I didn't. :P

7:16 PM  
Anonymous Suicidal Zebra said...

Damn, that's quite a hefty nerf, but doesn't impact the real honour farmers near as much as the casuals.

To be quite honest though the lag in Battlegroup 1 EU BG's does more to stop me from caring about PvP than any honour nerf likely will.

7:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What the fuck are you idiots crying about again? This ability was changed a long time ago in beta, you knew this was going to be applied to the live code right? You people are just dumb.

2:21 AM  
Anonymous Suicidal Zebra said...

Yet again, another anonymous poster without the intelligence to understand the conversations on this blog.

Here, let me spell this out for you, yes we knew that this change was coming, long before you i'd wager. What we are debating, as pretty much all the comments in this blog do when a change to Paladins is performed or to be performed, is whether the change is necessary and the impact of it. Especially when it is a change to the Live Server build, and as two-edged as the latest changes are.

May I recommend you toddle off to the official forums, you'd fit right in there.

9:36 AM  
Anonymous zebraisdumb said...

Oh in other words re-crying about things you've already cried about. I understood perfectly what you idiots were up to. But if you can re-cry about dumb things, I'll re-iterate your dumbness.

9:45 AM  
Anonymous Suicidal Zebra said...


You understood? Crying? Sure mate, sure, whatever you say. Now shoo to official forums.

11:44 AM  
Anonymous coduckian said...

He's not whining, just wondering why Big B still is so stupid.

There are so many solutions for this problem, they took the dumbest possible one.

1:38 PM  
Blogger Mastgrr said...

Cool down guys before I have to delete your posts. Try to keep it constructive and civil.

My personal opinion is this: if Blizzard had waited to unveil Crusader Strike before nerfing it to 10 seconds then none of us would be here talking about this now. I know some of you might think that it's stupid to think that way, but with our current trees and at our level cap of 60 is no longer what the game is balanced after. With the release of the Burning Crusade the entire philosophy of class balance will be focused on level 70. So in my opinion, even if we got our new enhanced trees in 2.0.1 - I still consider it to be an unfinished and very sketchy.

But putting that aside - we having it pretty good now. We have heals, complete shield immunity, snare immunity, able to cleanse three of the four major spell types, have extremely powerful and versatile group buffs, a powerful stun and able to semi-snare cap people at 100% speed.

While yes, we should be able to become a fighter, tanker or healer depending on how we spec, let's be rational here for a second. We're mainly a tanker-healer hybrid with the option to sidetrack in to DPS. We shouldn't be able to seriously contest other classes who are primarily damage dealer classes, really regardless of how we spec. I know that might be hurtful to some people, but we wanted to have more of a melee focus (especially in PVE) and we got it through enhanced tanking abilities.

5:57 AM  

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