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I guess these are the talent trees we'll be getting. That the talent tree preview is up on the community website pretty much set them in stone. I'll summarize what I think of this with one word:
Disappointing.
Sorry, I just can't help feel kind of cheated that we waited an entire year for this. For a class that was completely overhauled and tested for only two weeks prior launch, I fail to see why they require so much testing for this! I hope many realize the irony that these changes in 1.9 was given a larger test period than the entire basis for what became our class was given.
So much feedback, so many comments -- for what? We expected more, we expected bigger changes. What signals and expectations were we given? Certainly nothing that corresponds with what was given to us.
Judgement of Justice wasn't touched (nice to see that one full year of nagging about this was taken in to consideration).
Retribution sucks beyond the first couple of tiers. Blessing of Kings confuse many.
Protection has an identity crisis with talents that weaken each other (Anticipation vs Reckoning and Redoubt).
Holy, I guess, is the only tree that's sort-of viable.
If there's something we've learned now from this is that we can't change anything... So my message to you is to just give up; because nothing's going to change despite how many flaws you can point out and despite how much constructive criticism you give them.
In a nutshell: Pursuit of Justice still is the same talent it was when we first lobbied our complaints about it two weeks ago.
I hope the Caydiem chat with the developers outline and explain a lot of things, because, frankly, this is just tiring.
Disappointing.
Sorry, I just can't help feel kind of cheated that we waited an entire year for this. For a class that was completely overhauled and tested for only two weeks prior launch, I fail to see why they require so much testing for this! I hope many realize the irony that these changes in 1.9 was given a larger test period than the entire basis for what became our class was given.
So much feedback, so many comments -- for what? We expected more, we expected bigger changes. What signals and expectations were we given? Certainly nothing that corresponds with what was given to us.
Judgement of Justice wasn't touched (nice to see that one full year of nagging about this was taken in to consideration).
Retribution sucks beyond the first couple of tiers. Blessing of Kings confuse many.
Protection has an identity crisis with talents that weaken each other (Anticipation vs Reckoning and Redoubt).
Holy, I guess, is the only tree that's sort-of viable.
If there's something we've learned now from this is that we can't change anything... So my message to you is to just give up; because nothing's going to change despite how many flaws you can point out and despite how much constructive criticism you give them.
In a nutshell: Pursuit of Justice still is the same talent it was when we first lobbied our complaints about it two weeks ago.
I hope the Caydiem chat with the developers outline and explain a lot of things, because, frankly, this is just tiring.
posted by Mastgrr at 12:10:00 AM
15 Comments:
They addressed quite a few things and fulfilled a lot of requests. So you got to give them credit for that. Just as far as talents goes... its just sad though. I'm of the feeling that 1.9 is the last and only paladin patch. No followups that constantly happen for warlocks or warriors (and druids!). So I suggest everyone start making their choices now. Reroll or quit.
my paladin will become my bank character. Funnily enough his name is Coin although that choice of name wasn't to do with money. Ironic isn't it really. All he's good for now is standing outside a bank being a lacky. I'll just concentrate on my rogue and leveling a horde druid; classes people actually want and don't make fun of.
blizzard can go frell theirselves. The only reason that so many of us that are so pissed off stay is that we have friends and lots of time invested in WoW. go frell yourself Blizzard. assholes.
Already got myself a warrior to start playing. I love my paladin but he's only a heal-bot and I'm sick of pressing F7, 0, and ` for hours at a time in MC/BWL.
-KBG-
I wish I got on the test servers earlier. I havn't been able to copy my pally over. I guess they stopped the service a while back.
While the new talent tree appears better, it's definately not balanced. It would appear as if there is only 1 course of action, Holy + some Retribution to get the best of it all.
I made a spec with SoC, PoJ, Eye for Eye, Benediction, Consectation and Holy Strike.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladins2/talents.html?55503122521001000000000000000552000012220000
Everything you need, nothing you dont.
What do you all think? (hopefully the link works)
Im extremely dissapointed with the outcome of this patch. They hinted of a revamp, but all we got was crappy relocation of the talents. The new talents simply suck, and they've rearranged our most valued talents to higher tiers.
Luckily, I knew this day would come, and have a 59 rogue. Do you have any idea how much interaction there is with a rogue? Alot more fun, thats for sure.
*sigh*
The speculation was fun while it lasted, but I guess we should face reality now. That's it for Pally changes.
So, some comments:
What gets me is that the biggest criticism in all the Feedback Threads was a lack of interactivity when playing the class. One would have thought that this would lead to more active talents and skills, but bizarrely the opposite is true. SoF/JoF has been removed in favour of Righteous Fury, a self-buff (which may or may not improve tanking, I'm going for 'not' when compared with the effect of iJoF as it is linked far more intemately with damage done), EfaE, PoJ, that fear resistance talent, etc. The only improvement in active abilities is JoC, which though nice is still fairly standard and does not scale with Weapon Damage. The reduced cooldown on Judgement is worthless without more useful Judgements, and even at 90 mana is still more of a liability than benefit in 90% of cases. JoW remains the pick of the bunch.
For sure Epic Spec'd Paladins will be good, all that +Spell Power on the Tier 2 set and high armour will do that. However there is nothing for those of us that don't have the opportunity to get this set. And if you can get Judgement then in all likelihood you probably aren't suffering that much.
Frankly it all smacks of lack of imagination, forethought and knowledge as to the role that Paladins are forced into due to the quality of other character types. A great example of this is Sanctity Aura remaining as it is only moving location. Nothing suggested will actually change the way Paladins have to be played at end-game, and only serve to reduce the Paladin population still further. This, in addition to increasing the relaince on Mana Pool, something that 40-60 Paladins are going to find extremely tough now that far fewer Strath, Scholo and DM runs are being done these days. Glad my Pally is already at 60.
So, there we go. Still, I guess we should be happy with 15min Raid Blessings, though the way it was done was stupid. Personally though, if I do continue with the game, Warlocks are looking far more interesting.
-Janus, Dragonblight (EU)
P.S. Place bets now as to whether they fix the SoC bug and getting a nerf ('correction') in 1.10.
I've been using my pally to supply cash to my Horde mage for a while now (buy felcloth/make mooncloth/sell). I've also found that my mage is much better at making money than my pally ever was (I haven't figured out why).
I gave up on the apladin class a while ago. I was hoping 1.9 might make him fun again, but I wasn't really expecting it.
My advice to everyone now is: reroll. Leveling pretty much any other class is more fun than playing a 60 paladin, and after a few weeks, you will no longer feel any sort of regret at the time wasted. Eventually, your new character will become your main, and the pally will just a be a bank drone and a profession bot.
Sad to say, but I'm with you Mastgrr. I waited with great anticipation that the Paladin will become a viable class again. I told all my guildies that they have to wait until Patch 1.9. I even started calling it "Patch 1.9: The Return of the Paladins" because I was so hopeful based on the developers comments at BlizCon.
Only to find out they essentially lied to us. The developers have taken the Paladin class and changed it to a caster in plate. They have taken the talent trees and made them a complete joke. The Holy tree is the only viable tree now. The Protection tree recieved no real improvements (lucky them) and the Retribution tree is a complete waste of time.
I am so close to quitting this game but I have guildmates who rely on me (and my 60 Warrior). I know one thing. I'll never buy another Blizzard product.
I long ago started a shaman and a warrior. I don't think that the paladin class is complete, regardless of what these changes have brought to the table.
All other classes have very engaging, noticable contributions to give to a group in both PvE and PvP. My shaman, which I have come to realize is ridiculously over powered, swings the tide of PvP battles with his snares, shocks, hard hitting melee attacks, and quick heals. With my paladin I always feel like a tag along, doing a tiny bit of damage or throwing out a few tiny heals that go unnoticed. It's like I'm the kid in a basketball game that is nowhere near as fast or as strong as everyone else, but is allowed to play because they needed an 5th man.
Blizzard has definately made one thing very clear: the paladin class is meant for beginners, and will not grow in power or effectiveness beyond level 40. I wish I had realized that before leveling it all the way to 60.
there's a chinese board game called 'Go' and it's said to take minutes to learn but a lifetime to master. Now Paladins may be seen as a noobish class but a well played Paladin is worth more than any other class in group PVP, hands down. That doesn't mean it's fun necessarily, and that's the problem I have, but as far as I'm concerned there is no more important class in group PVP.
Of course that means you have to play the nightmare that is battlegrounds, which is the unfortunate consequence. I can't believe that Blizzard has done nothing to fix the terrible damage that Battlegrounds is doing to peoples lives, and I mean that sincerely. If you know anyone who has ground to rank 14 you'll know what I mean.
Really, I'm sick of listening to how 'good' paladins are in battlegrounds. I bless/heal/drop reckoning bombs in BG's, put on BoF when the warriors are snared, and always have BoSac ready when it's needed, but paladins suck. Our 1.5 second heal is garbage, and random damage is random damage. BoF is the best thing we bring to battlegrounds, and invincible healing every 5 minutes. That is sad.
For holy/ret I'd go with.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladins2/talents.html?55503102501051000000000000000052300510200000
funny because I thought we brought 1/2 stuns, cleanse, FoL which is a great heal with the right gear, but more importantly than that the ability to heal while getting ganked. The reason we are so important in BG can simply put as this, we're priests in plate. Now of course we cannot heal as well as priests, but we can still heal. However unlike priests we aren't the first targets on anyones lists, and even if we are we have much better damage mitigation.
If it doesn't suit your play style then roll a class with dependable damage like a rogue or mage, however currently paladins are the best support class for BG as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately it's also incredibly frustrating and dull.
On another note I've hung up my paladins sword, banked all my gear and even sent all my empty bags to other characters. The dream is over, blizz has failed Uther and us.
Yup. It's a good thing I've already lvled a 60 druid. I'm even working on a hunter. My mage, priest and warrior are already in their 40's.
I don't see much point in working on my 60 pally anymore sad as it is to say.
Now that I think more about it. They basically made pallies how druids used to be before their talent overhaul. We now have only 1 semi-viable tree where we used to have pretty much none. Whoop dee doo.
Having done a little PvP in the last couple of weeks (1000 HKs worth in AB really) I reckon the biggest issue is simply gear dependancy. If you are in a guild with fairly liberal rules concerning MC loot (pally plate aside) then things are not too bad. However these days hanging out in Strath/Scholo/world drop blues is no longer enough. Even against Horde rogues and warriors you can - and often do - get your ass handed to you simply because of the huge gear differential (and of course the better tactics they use). The requirement for +int plate is only going to increase that, to the extent that I would rarely bother venturing in PUG BG's without spending the next month in MC, ZG and BWL. 3.5k HP and Mana unbuffed is not even close to enough (and unfortunately is all I have access to at this stage).
And then our healing... *shudder*. Number of times I have tried to heal someone and been either too slow or not 'big' enough. Even LoH rarely makes a great deal of difference. BoP is great though to cast on Priests, mucho effective.
So what shall I do? Getting in MC these days is like pulling teeth, and even Strath and Scholo runs are rare, so that ever important gear is unreachable. No way I can get to worthwhile PvP rewards as things stand, and even those rewards are going to suck mightily come 1.9 (gogo base mana pool). Best thing I can hope for is to grind rep and hope for the best, the AB shoulders are nice. But the Paladin not being 'fun to play' excludes this. This isn't March any more and I am not willing to spend 25+ hours a week playing at something I hate.
Thus, to the graveyard it goes. And I think hard about £8.99 that I could be spending on booze every month. Hell, I don't even drink.
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