08 May, 2007

"They want to know if he still got it"

Still here. I got bored not blogging.

Had a really fun arena today in a 5v5. It started out like any battle in Blade's Edge - we usually confront them head-on by charging right at them. Things screwed up though and our guys were dying one by one. After about a minute or two the only two people left were me and our Holy Priest. The opposing team had two warriors. I was at like 30% health and the Priest was at like 15%. The warriors were hovering around 50-60%. I mean, there was no way in hell we'd be able to recover this. We were goners for sure...or so I thought.

Since the Priest was the squishiest target for the warriors and because he was at lowest health they insisted on killing him first. Really insisted. They completely ignored me, probably thought I had my bubble still up (which I don't think I did). Then the priest said to me "toss me a Blessing of Freedom". He wanted it so he could jump up out to the platforms. What he was doing was kiting both warriors with Renew and Power Word: Shield. Fortunately the warriors both (!) missed the jump and fell down to the lower level.

Then one of the guys on Vent said "Rez the shadow priest". So I was like "What? Oh yeah, shi--I can do that!". So I hit the rez button and began to cast it, biting my finger nails hoping not to be interrupted or getting targeted for doing it.

By this time one of the warriors were on their way up to the bridge again. They saw me casting it, and I was going like "OMG!". But for some reason, they ran past me trying to kill the priest on the platform - but both missed the jump AGAIN! They obviously didn't know what the heck I was doing.

I successfully rezzed the shadow priest, then me and the priest healed him up and I buffed him with BoWisdom to give him some mana

After that it's a bit fuzzy, but I believe we just feared one warrior and started to dot the second one up eventually killing them both.

It was truly an epic battle. Wish I would've recorded it or taken screenshots of it (think I got two). If I were the opposing team I'd crap my pants or rip my hair off. Literally. No wonder they're removing the ability to rez in arenas in 2.1. It's pretty friggin funny (and cheezy!).

Speaking of Arena PVP. Pallies who said that Scrolls of Blinding Light sucked should get slapped. It only got nerfed 5% speed between Classic and TBC - fortunately! Those who clamored it served no purpose were wrong back in the day and they're still wrong today. It is one of the best trinkets for Holy Paladins there is. Period. For over a year now it's been on my trinket slot. It is actually to the point where I am amazed it has not been nerfed more extensively. I can toss heals in really, really quick secession. A portable Heroism/Bloodlust. With arena resetting all cooldowns I can use it once every battle. Haha, I remember when the Burning Crusade came out, my first question was - "Did they add another level 70 trinket that's just like 'Scrolls?".

Combine it with Divine Illumination and it's like being a PVP-shotgun healer. It is like being Max Payne in Bullet Time, you know. Kinda same feeling. I can heal so fast that I can keep a clothie up with Mortal Strike, rows of dots who's being focused fired longer than you think. No joke. I find myself activating Scrolls, Divine Illumination and Divine Shield all at the same time to be a pretty bad-ass combo. Invincible tank healer that can throw cheap heals really, really fast. Kek.

In other news, the reitemization of end-game gear is great! Worldofraids.com has an excellent list of item changes on the PTR.

For example look at the Justicar set and compare 'em to the existant Justicar.

Crystalforge tanking set is also available; helm, gloves, legs, chest and shoulders.

If you're one of the Pallies who grabbed the Pendant of the Violet Eye or Ribbons of Sacrifice for fun, consider dusting them off!

Legacy has literally become hunter loot. To redeem yourself, check the blacksmithing weapons.

2.1 is probably going to be the best patch in World of Warcraft history. Not only is the content absolutely massive, but they have done a lot of good moves in fixing end-game. Literally every answer to someone saying something in guild chat is "lol, wait for 2.1 - it'll be fixed". The Illumination nerf, for those who know I was kinda upset about - I'm over it. As long as we can still heal heroics I'm not that bothered about it. Combined with the reitemization changes I think the effect of the nerf won't be as big as initially expected.

Anyways, this Friday I'm off again back to Europe for two months or so. I'll be back in America right before BlizzCon and hopefully will attend (Northrend Expansion or Starcraft 2!). If anyone of you guys show up there I'd be happy to meet with you. Who knows? Maybe Blizz will have some bloggers' corner or something there which I can put all my gear. Just like as in 2004 Prez conventions where bloggers sit in a special room to stroke their own epeens. That'd be pretty cool.

To be honest, one of the things I look forward most to are the class panels. I would really like to ask what really is holding Ret Pallies back when it comes to raiding? Is it a philosophical question due to our heals/bubble/plate or technical question of just improving our overall raid utility? Also, obviously, I would like to ask where our class is heading and maybe what is in store for us in the future, and what we can expect to come for us.

Edit: Progressively fixing errors in text. Wrote this in the wee morning.


Blogger Kaziel said...

YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!! You're back!

I'm seriously considering going to BlizzCon. I went and enjoyed the first one, and I'd probably like the second one too.

Also, respecced my Paladin to prot spec (left three points free, two for Imp Holy Shield and one for Avenger's Shield), and I'm loving it. And I have to say that some of the changes for pally tanking loot in 2.1 are pretty awesome.

5:12 PM  
Blogger Gunn said...

My guess is that Ret paladins are not good in raids because most of them do not know what they're doing, those who do know what they're doing are spec'd holy/prot.

But even if those of us who do know how to play paladin went ret spec we would only be good vs Undead/demon mobs. against other mobs we simply can not out dps Hunters/Mages/Rogues/warlocks/shamans/warriors/druids/ pretty much everyone else.

Granted there are always going to be people that are bad at there class and I'm sure there are ret paladins that think they are good because they're out DPSIng those bad players, but simply as a matter of course PALADINS ARE NOT MEANT TO DPS. with the exception of undead. and if someone is specin RET just to put a hurtin on the undead... well I just don't know if it's worth having a conversation with that person.

5:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

:D Welcome back.

6:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glad to see you back :)

Grats on the sweet arena match, wish I had your luck.

I fought and lost against a healer's nightmare team in arena last night (twice), 3 warlocks and 2 shadow priests...
I was immediately forced to bubble my priest (which instantly got mass dispelled, and he started to spam dispell on the reapplied DoTs, and ate 2 Unstable Affliction dispells and died in under a second. I couldn't do anything with 2 felhunters and a felguard constantly gnawing on me, and our mage/rogue/hunter were chain feared/DoTed to death.

7:08 PM  
Anonymous Proudfoot said...

My guess is that Ret paladins are not good in raids because most of them do not know what they're doing, those who do know what they're doing are spec'd holy/prot.
- Gunn

I'm sorry but I resent that you think just because someone specs Ret they don't know what they are doing. I know that Ret is not the best DPS in the world but I refuse to spec back to holy because I never signed up as a "holy warrior" to be a healbot. I healed for 2 years prior to BC and I know first hand that paladins are AMAZING healers... but I don't care. I want to have some raid viability as Ret and I don't see why Blizzard refuses to give it to us. I don't care if it's a DPS upgrade or some sort of actually USEFUL utility. Why do we have a Ret tree if we are meant to be clerics? EVERY other class in the game can DPS... WHY not paladins? Would it really be that bad to have one more type of DPS?

For me it's Ret or reroll.

1:26 AM  
Blogger Vaelin said...

Someone on the Paladin forums recently linked a youtube video from the class forum at the last Blizzcon - the one where that infamous slide was shown (where design doesn't meet reality - Paladins at the back of raids). Having seen the slide presented in context, I now understand why the Paladin is a caster class and will probably always be such henceforth.

The topic being discussed in that forum was the issue of what was originally intended for a class (Paladin, wears plate, is up front smashing things alongside the Warriors), and what should be done when the actual player trends differ from this (raiding guilds discovered Paladins to be more useful when kept out of harms way, healing). This presented a problem for Blizzard - should they rework the class to preserve the original design concept, or run with the way things were turning out and cater to the actual reality unfolding in-game? I think we all know which direction they chose. It was reflected in the gear change from the early raiding tiers, with Lawlbringer becoming a healbot set.

You want to ask what really is holding Ret Pallies back when it comes to raiding? You need not look any further than the rest of the playerbase (and the Paladins who enjoyed their subservient role in raiding in the early days).

4:11 AM  
Blogger Vaelin said...


Amusing thread pondering the question of why Paladins can't use the simplest of weapons - the staff.

I'll reproduce the OP here for those farked by a work firewall:

" Let me run down a brief list..

Two handed Swords, sticks with sharp edges.. k we can do that..
Two handed Maces, big sticks with weights on them. Check, got that one.
Polearms.. this is a tricky one.. long sticks with pointy parts. Check, skill 350/350

Ok, so why can't we use the staff skill again?

I can't seem to fathom the proper operation of a stick all by itself.. but if you take that same stick, tie a brick to one end and call it a maul, I'm all over it. 350/350.

Excellent. I'd love to know what little lost corner of esoteric lore is responsible for that Blizzard snafu."

If Paladins are going to be healbots anyway, then I say allow them to use staves. Then at least they'll look like one.

6:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sadly, the most prevalent and obvious agreement for Vaelin is the hideous dichotomy of the paladin forums. If there had been a consistent 'hell no' from the playerbase, the changes would not have continued in the vein they had, nor the neglect for ret and recently improved prot. Support for it from a significant portion of the players(paladin and the others), easier for blizzard, and that's all she wrote.

8:26 AM  
Blogger Gunn said...

I wouldn't being to mad. You didn't even mention the other side of Paladins... Tanking.

I don't beleive Paladins were ever meant to be great DPSers or even main DPSers. It's been said many times that they aren't meant for such things. Most great paladins will agree with me that our roll is defined as Healer/tank.

While I agree it would be cool to be able to DPS, it's really not our Mission Objective and never ever has been. With the exception of Undead. But like I said if you're specing RET for raids just to put a hurting on UNdead, then you are lying to yourself and people are laughing at you.

This is the truth. The greatest ret Paladin will never, can never, out DPS an equivalent DPS class, if gear is approx the same level.

If it's ret or reroll and you want to raid... then you better reroll. ( I suggest rogue, noone will ever ask you to do anything except DPS)

Blizzard has even stated that the ret tree is mainly there as a Solo/Lvling spec and not intended for anything else.

I also agree with the poster above, Paladins should be able to use Staves. It's silly that they can not.

8:24 PM  
Anonymous Brute - Uther said...

Paladins bring other things to the table besides DPS. I believe a good Ret pally would be a valuable asset to the raid. They have an aura for their party, blessings for the raid, Cleanse, BoP, BoF, BoSac, and they could heal in sticky situations, and they provide one extra wipe prevention.

Paladins have the most versatile buffing system avaliable except maybe for shamans. If a paladin could do, say, 75% of what a rogue was doing for damage and was able to multi-task well enough to use all of his utility spells when needed, I should think he'd be a valuable member of the raid.

I mean, if a paladin could equal a rogue in DPS, why on earth would you bring rogues? As far as buffs go, they have only love to give, and they can't BoP the healer that's about to get ganked.

As far as what Gunn was saying, I agree that most paladins who know what they're doing spec protection or holy now for raids, but this is more a reflection on how bad most ret paladins are. I do believe that there exist paladins who know how to play ret in a raid and be an asset, not a liability.

2:23 PM  
Blogger Thrillhouse said...

"Most great paladins will agree with me that our roll is defined as Healer/tank. "

It wasn't always. It used to be just healer, and the argument was that if paladins could tank the endgame then WoW would cease to exist.

Same argument is now narrowed down to the retribution tree. If Paladins could DPS, game would be broken, cats would die etc.

2:37 PM  
Anonymous rush said...

'Blizzard has even stated that the ret tree is mainly there as a Solo/Lvling spec and not intended for anything else.'

TBH Blizz have no idea whatsoever. and why make paladins have a solo spec when no other class has one?

And a solo spec in an mmo?..

Blizz just cant admit they screwed up big time with the paladins retribution tree.

5:40 PM  
Anonymous snow said...

Where did you see you can't rez in arenas in 2.1?

6:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ya'll are all doom and gloom about this, but at least kalgan's posting got all the retarded garbage out of the paladin forum. you can actually find legitimate discussion there now.

also, i've been compiling a list of people who raid as ret, and while it is by no means standard, it is happening, and they are aiding thier raid in no small measure through thier presence.

additionally, there have been interesting numbers posted on the european boards concerning the overall dps measurements of attack power vs spellpower for ret, and it turns out that spellpower actually adds more overall dps, even factoring in the overall itemization points of ap to sp on gear. here's the thread, it's worth a read. crit is still aces though, but spellpower does in fact add more dps than even crit rating.


10:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh, also, thunder and deep thunder are now domination. say what you want about retribution, but i'll still crit your face off with deep thunder.

10:29 PM  
Anonymous Proudfoot said...

While I agree it would be cool to be able to DPS, it's really not our Mission Objective and never ever has been. -Gunn

It's only not our "objective" because we have never been enabled to DPS. If paladins were given a decent Ret talent tree you would see a TON of ret pallies show up. ALOT of people rolled a pally and played ret all the way to 70 only to be told you can't do that anymore.

Blizzard has stated that the ret tree is mainly there as a Solo/Lvling spec and not intended for anything else -Gunn

Name one other talent tree in the game that is great for getting to 70 but sucks at every aspect once you get there. It makes no sense, if our role is tank/healers then take the ret tree away and give us another tanking or healing talent tree. Then at least you won't be leading people on with thoughts of DPS all the way to 70.

I have a rogue and a warrior and I've chosen to fight for pally dps because there is no "good" reason for us not to have it.

Paladins should never be able to use staves IMO. If you want to be a priest roll on.

11:24 PM  
Blogger Lorath (EU Bloodhoof) said...

"It makes no sense" -proudfoot

The bronzed, muscular leg of the Spartan swiftly kicks the messenger down into the bottomless pit, while a bloodcurdling scream escapes his lips....


WB M ^_^

12:38 PM  
Anonymous Davaeorn said...

There's more than one talent tree that can't be used for raiding (read: not optimized efficiency, which is what this is about). In fact, most classes have one.

I'm being loose here, but

Mage - Arcane
Rogue - Subtlety
Warrior - Arms
Warlock - Demonology
Hunter - Beast Mastery
Druid - I'm pretty sure Oomkins wouldn't do much more damage than paladins would, with equal gear
Shaman - No spec is truly incompatible with raiding, although some are more effective
Priest - Same here

Paladin is a cool class but it suffers from people who choose to see only their side of the coin. For the people who like drawing comparisions to Warcraft 3, did you even play the game? The only thing the paladin could properly damage was undeads, and even there other, more offensive heroes were on par with them. They healed, they reinforced and they were resilient. Healing protectors. As far as I'm concerned, Retribution as a talent tree is only a crutch for paladins to level up and grind resources to become tanks or healers (preferrably a mix, hybrid and all). I don't really see the problem with not getting to be on par with other classes in all aspects.

What would be the point of making a rogue if a class that could spec and gear to both heal and tank could do the same, or even nearly equal damage? The same goes for shamans and druids. Getting to be as strong as a "pure" class (only one possible role) should never be possible with a versatile hybrid class.

TLDR - a weekload of rant which probably have been written ten thousand times already.

4:09 AM  

Post a Comment

<< Home