13 September, 2006

Expansion Paladins - Just Don't PvP

That's the overall message I'm getting from Blizzard.

First, Warlocks become able to shut down the only widely lauded role of Paladins in PvP - keeping your allies free of harmful effects.

Healing was never really an option against intelligent opponents who knew that all they had to do was keep you crowd controlled and CS you when you managed to get up and start casting. Earthshock Rank 1 > Holy Light/Flash of Light

Now Priests can remove the single ability around which our class was designed and balanced - an ability that still retains its long 5 minute cooldown, while Mass Dispel lacks a cooldown. The high mana cost of MD (which, honestly, will be trivial for TBC Priests and their 10k+ mana pools) and risk of taking damage and eating a silence from UA means they'll only be whipping this spell out in the most dire of situations - to get rid of that bubble. As far as we know, the Forbearance nerf will remain in place also - especially considering it was taken into consideration with regards to Avenging Wrath (it wouldn't surprise me if they just went ahead and made Avenging Wrath a simple, dispellable/purgeable magic buff).

What are we to do?

Just don't PvP on your Paladin. That's right, log over to your disease infesting Warlocks or dual-wielding Shamans and own it up in the battlegrounds.

It's not all that bad. I mean, sure we can't enjoy a major aspect of the game anymore, but our Paladins will be a blast in PvE - where our bubbles will stay up for their full duration, our heals are rarely interrupted, and we can actually keep a seal up. Go out, and slay the evil computer controlled minions of Azeroth. Tankadins rejoice, as you'll now be pushing Warrior capability in the tanking arena (I actually read this in a blue post).

As far as Blizzard is concerned, their faction has the cake and can eat it too. They get their perceived PvE "EZ Mode," and can now finally bring a close to the bubble-hearth era. If you play a Paladin on a PvP server, you're even allowed to transfer. My advice is to do so. You won't have to worry about being caught in the open, unable to defend yourself with even your most potent abilities, and you can tank up a storm in the new dungeons.

23 Comments:

Blogger Thoma said...

It really does suck. And the reckoning change destroyed our burst damage. And while the change to it is great for tankadins it's a kick in the balls for PvP.

So lets look at it. We have no real burst damage. We have heals that lack the power needed to get the job done in BGs. We have no way of forcing combat with someone (snares). And the one thing we do have is just as effective as a priest talent. A priest with Spirit of Redemption is just as good a PvP healer as we're thought to be.

7:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Time for a real paladin protest like the warriors did back in the day.

I really wouldn't mind them removing the bubble totally if they were going to really buff the other aspects of the class, but considering the new talents, it's not enough. While the new talents are sweet, DS was the trump card for a healing paladin in PvP.

You are right on this one Vaelin, even if you happen to have a warlock in your back pocket (there aren't many lock's out there) the priest will eat the 5 second silence in order to dispell the paladins divine shield. Also the mass dispell is aimed, so if the lock doesn't curse an enemy who is within 15 yards of you, the new warlock curse is a non-factor.

This change is pretty bad for support paladins in pvp.

Maybe if DS was on a 3 minute CD, or 2 minute it wouldn't be as bad.

7:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ahh...I have a solution! Don't heal, don't cleanse and ret-noob it up! :D

7:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I mean, sure we can't enjoy a major aspect of the game anymore, but our Paladins will be a blast in PvE - where our bubbles will stay up for their full duration, our heals are rarely interrupted, and we can actually keep a seal up.

Don't be so sure about this, Vaelin. It could be possible that raid bosses could use Mass Dispel as well (can you imagine the a boss fight where you have to let a party member get MC'd just so you cast UA on them, break the MC, and let the boss MD the raid in order to silence him?), also rendering the emergency bubble useless.

This change is truly the death knell fo the paladin class, and a sign that Blizzard has no intention whatsoever of improving it.

7:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, what Blizzard's saying is that with this nerf, they're telling us NOT to PvP because we're gonna be auto targeted. We're a PvE class and we should never deviate from that because Blizzard's too lazy to even try to balance us.

Just wait. They've nerfed us into the ground and it won't be long before they'll nerf us BENEATH the ground with no justifiable reason, just like with DS.

8:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, I don't think I've seen so much whining since pre-casting was taken out of UO. Never have I seen such a perfect moment to say "L2P".

9:24 PM  
Blogger Thoma said...

Yeah, god forbid we have some legitmate complaints.

9:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Mr. L2P;

Sure! We learn to play, but then Blizzard pulls the rug out from beneath our feet... repeatedly. I think that's justifiable enough to warrant complaining.

10:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wtf do you mean l2p. Ya, the pally community complains at every nerf, because most of the nerfs we get hit with arent things like less damage, weaker healing, they are fundamental shifts in the way we play our class.

11:54 PM  
Anonymous winter said...

jeez, all Blizzard are saying is that they feel a 12s invulnerability is too much for group PvP and so they give a way for 1 class to remove your bubble.

Oh no the sky is falling!!!

1 class! Which is then putting themselves at risk of a 1k+ UA and is taking a big chunk of their mana away. Why are you whining so much? Because you are too used to having 2 or 3 lives with your pallies? Well welcome to the way everyone else has been playing for 2 years. Pallies still have a stun, they have heals, they have lay on hands, they could have repentance and against every class but 1 they STILL have 12s of invulnerability ONCE every 5 minutes.

This truly is just a matter of Learn2Play.

12:49 AM  
Anonymous Nonnobis said...

I can't WAIT to see the posts the L2P Horde trolls make in the forums when they get their Blelfadins to 60. Heh heh. I will be handing out [tear-stained handkerchief]s left and right. Please, allow me my small pleasures.

1:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is the nature of PvP for players to find weaknesses in classes and exploit them. What Blizzard is counting on with Mass Dispell is that Priests will be afraid to use it because of mana cost, Unstable Affliction, etc. What will end up happening is that Priests will certainly avoid using it - until a bubbled Paladin is giving them trouble. While this spell may have its uses in PvE and at other times, it's primary and most often implemented purpose will be to remove a 5 minute cooldown ability.

1:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blizzard sure isn't trying very hard to convince pallies to buy the expansion. :P

4:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I look forward to the day when a Blood Elf paladin realizes that he isn't the invincible god that he thought he was.

I'm rolling an Alliance shaman with a single, focused purpose: to make Horde regret ever claiming anything about faction imbalance.

I invite all paladins to do the same.

7:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well i just wanna check what my sulfuras will disenchant to. No matter what im not being able to kill anything with a 2hander.

2:30 PM  
Blogger Relmstein said...

At least with the new talent points it will be easy to get improved hammer of justice and repentence. Plus our seal of justice is finally becoming a snare against targets when judged. Hopefully with the crowd control and forced combat we should be able to survive the bubble nerf. Just count on guarding flags to be a lot harder now.

5:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not to pick nits, but JoJustice isn't a snare in the "slows down the enemy" sense. It does prevent them from speeding up.

One wonders if it will prevent things like boot enchants from working temporarily. (Probably not.)

10:00 PM  
Anonymous Yunk said...

Well you just have to travel in groups, and only one bubble at a time, and try to get a heal in on some other pallies after you heal yourself. :)

I certainly hate the bubble. And I admit I was excited when I learned I'll finally be able to dispell that most annoying power in all of PvPdom (you have no idea how much we hordies hate it! heh). But honestly, it just means we have to kill you twice. It's not such a huge deal that they had to nerf it. I don't understand why they have to listen to whining players and get rid of everyone's abilities. I used to play a rogue, and they nerfed rogue pve damage until raids no longer even wanted them, instead looking for dps warriors and hunters.

However I'm sure they're going to nerf priests. I play a shadowpriest (though I actually heal in BGs ZOMG!) and we are going to be so powerful I can't believe we won't get a huge nerf once everyone starts whining. So ... they may take the ability away soon, who knows.

10:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I can't WAIT to see the posts the L2P Horde trolls make in the forums when they get their Blelfadins to 60."

Mose of these "Horde trolls" you are referring to aren't re-rolling BELFpally for PVP purposes. They are doing it to improve overall end-game for their faction to a point that the Alliance has been for 2 years. There won't be as much crying as you'd think.

2:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I'm rolling an Alliance shaman with a single, focused purpose: to make Horde regret ever claiming anything about faction imbalance.
"

We already know shaman strengths and weaknesses. This would prove futile. QQ

2:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding Mass Dispel, it depends on the mechanics of it, but I doubt it will see much use. It's just too damn dangerous and or expensive. It's better of being used to break multiple CC's at once.

If I were a paladin, I'd just pop DS, and if a priest were around I'd toss on another buff aftwerwards to protect my DS.

- - "I'm rolling an Alliance shaman with a single, focused purpose: to make Horde regret ever claiming anything about faction imbalance."

- - - "We already know shaman strengths and weaknesses. This would prove futile. QQ"

You know shaman strengths and weaknesses in duels or as an ally in group pvp.

I play both sides of the fence (same server) and as I see it, the Horde will roll some pallies for PvE and the Alliance will roll Shaman for PvP and maybe PvE considering the changes.

To me, that means that Horde will not have the utility of pallies in pvp, but will now face offensive dispelling from a front line fighter.

On my human priest, I fort myself the majority of the time, maybe 75%. The rest of the time I just roll with InnerFire. I occasionally buff my team if there are few shamans purging or I have I.Focus up for team Fort. I almost never get buffs from my groups.

On my ud priest, I fully buff myself and my group almost every time with few exceptions and my groups tend to follow suit. Ofc, every bg there's always some mage whose mana is far too precious to be used buffing, but I digress.

The point is, that on Horde I can rely on my buffs sticking, whereas when I play my alliance priest I cannot.

Both of my priests retired from raiding and now only see the inside of BGs. My horde priest is 28/23 Holy Disc and my Alliance priest is 33/18 Shadow Disc, and yes having to face WotF is a BIG disadvantage for alliance priests.

My personal opinion is that healing specced alliance priests currently have no place in a bg unless grouped with several dedicated healers.

8:01 PM  
Anonymous nonnobis said...

"Mose of these "Horde trolls" you are referring to aren't re-rolling BELFpally for PVP purposes. They are doing it to improve overall end-game for their faction to a point that the Alliance has been for 2 years. There won't be as much crying as you'd think."

As it happens, I don't PvP.

As a holy paladin I dish out far less damage than my guildmates. So leveling past 50, grinding quest mobs and grinding mobs for gold always takes me longer than anyone else. True, I can help my guild go through a 40-man instance with more health and mana, resists and damage. That's great, yay for them, I'm glad to do it. When I do this 40-man job, I mostly get, you guessed it, healbot gear.

But out in the world of Azeroth where I spend the rest of my time (and where I will begin the long, painful climb to level 70) I won't be able to buff, heal and cleanse mobs to death. Ret-speccing is looking better and better.

I pity all hybrids who mostly PvE for their gear, because for decent damage gear they have to PvP their brains out or make do with crafted blues or instance blues for which they compete with pure dps classes. (One startling exception is the "of the Grand Crusader" bits that have dropped from Naxx for pallies. Three pieces! With strength! The Naxx heal plate has NO strength. None at all.)

So when a Blood Elf Paladin goes forth from MC and kills one mob while the rogue he meleed alongside, buffed, sealed, healed and cleansed an hour ago manages to kill two, he might find his eyes get a little misty.

10:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well personally i think it's bullshit that Shamans can purge BoP and by doing so i still get Forbearance, also i specked my pally to get holy shield only to find out that it's a magic move via purge and dispell. WTF so i speck 31 points to get a move that has a 10 second cooldown so once purged i lost a vital move for a Protection specked pally for like 8 seconds or so. It's so rediculous how much Paladins have been nerfed and as of right now i am going to delete my pally and start a horde character cause i am tired of the bullshit. AND DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON MASS DISPELL DS.

9:46 PM  

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