24 August, 2006

Paladin Talents and Spells

Yep. It's leaked now. They're in this thread on the Pally forums , but the user will probably be banned and the thread deleted later today when the mods get back to work. Check this thread's comments for the talents.
Update: the thread has now been deleted. No dispair! Just check comments.

My thoughts are that, first of all...it seems that Blizzard has listened to many of our suggestions:
- Avenging Wrath increases all damage caused by 30% for 20 sec and causes Forebearance, i.e. I remember before 1.9 it was popular to suggest a damage increasing ability that shared the cooldown with Divine Shield. Here ya go!
- Improved Resistance Auras and Improved Divine Shield also got thrown in to the Protection tree...good news as I know many had suggested something like that.
- Improved Sanctity Aura also got what people wanted, by increasing healing done to targets by 3 to 6%. Who said that Blizzard doesn't listen to the community?
- Blessing of Spell Warding is a reverse BoP. I know that's been asked plenty of times.

And...as I said earlier. I kinda expected it, Retribution just doesn't seem as good as the other two trees. Because Kaplain said our future class focus would mostly be at tanking and healing. Then again, all those +crit talents are going to go hand in and nicely with Vengeance. Just to be clear though...this is just my initial impression.

19 Comments:

Blogger Mastgrr said...

Spiritual Attunement (66): Gives the Paladin mana when healed by other friendly targets. The amount of mana gained is equal to 10% of the amount healed.

Blessing of Spell Warding (6Cool: A targeted party member is protected from all magical attacks for 10 sec, but during that time they are Silenced. Players may only have one Blessing on them per Paladin at any one time. Once protected, the target cannot be made invulnerable by Divine Shield, Divine Protection, Blessing of Spell Warding, or Blessing of Protection again for 1 min.

Crusader Aura (64): Increases the mounted speed by 20% for all party members within 40 yards. Players may only have one Aura on them per Paladin at any one time.

Seal of Blood (64): All melee attacks deal additional Holy damage equal to 30% of normal weapon damage, but the Paladin loses health equal to 10% of the total damage inflicted. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing 409 to 451 Holy damage at the cost of 136 to 151 health.

Avenging Wrath (70): Increases all damage caused by 30% for 20 sec. Causes Forebearance.

New Talents:

Holy

Pure of Heart, requires 20, 3 point talent
Increases the paladin's chance to resist curse/disease by 5(10/15?)%

Purifying Power, requires 25, 2 point talent
Reduces the mana cost of Consecration and Cleanse by 5(10?)%, and increases the critical strike chance of Holy Wrath and Exorcism by 10(20?)%

Blessed Life, requires 30, 5 point talent
All attacks against you have a 2(10?)% chance to cause half damage

Light's Grace, requires 35, 3 point talent
Your Holy Light has a 33(100?)% chance to cause our next Holy Light spell cast within 15 seconds take .5 seconds less casting time.

Holy Guidance, requires 35, 5 point talent
Your damage/healing is increased by 7(35)% of your Int.

Divine Illumination, requires 40, 1 point talent
Reduces mana costs of all spells by 50% for 20 seconds, 2 minute cooldown.

Protection

Improved Resistance Auras, requires 20 points, 2 point talent
Your resistance auras also reduce spell damage by additional 3(6?)%

Improved Divine Shield, requires 25, 2 point talent
Lowers the cooldown for Divine Shield by 30 (60?) seconds, and lowers the attack speed penalty by 50(100?)%.

Ardent Defender, requires 30, 5 point talent
When your health is below 20(100???)%, reduces all damage against you by 10%
Ed: I have no idea which part scales, but a perma defensive stance doesn't seem hideously out of line, and makes deep prot a whole new level of appealing.

Lasting Defense, requires 35, 3 point talent
When struck by a melee attack, you have a 4(12?)% chance to gain 50% of the damage taken in mana.

Weapon Expertise, requires 35, 5 point talent
Increases skill iwth all weapons by 2(10?)

Avenger's Shield, requires 40, 1 point talent
range 8-30 (shooting range), Requires shield, 30 sec cooldown
(Listed are from the talent, it may scale with level, there don't seem to be any ranks on the trainer)
500 mana, 270-330 damage.
Hurls a holy shield at the enemy, dealing listed damage, and then bouncing to additional close targets. Affects 3 targets total.

Retribution

Crusade, requires 20, 3 point talent
Increaes all damage to Humaniod, Undead, Demon and Elemential foes by 1(3?)%

Improved Sanctity Aura, requires 25 and Sanctity Aura, 2 point talent
The amount of healing done to targets affected by Sanctity Aura is increased by 3(6)%

Divine Purpose, requires 30, 5 point
Decrease the chance that melee and ranged attacks will critically hit you by 1(5?)%.

Empowered Judgement, requires 35, 3 point
Gives your Judgement a 33(100?)% chance to refund 50% of the mana cost of th judged spell

Fanaticism, requires 35, 5 point
Increases the critical strike chance of Seal of Command and all damaging Judgements by 2(10)%

Sanctified Crusader, requires 40, 1 point
In addition to the normal effect, your Judgement of the Crusader will increase the critical strike chance of all attacks made vs the judged target by an additional 2%

6:40 PM  
Anonymous snow said...

Yeah, ret definitely lacks the flash that the other two trees seem to be getting. Still, +12% crit to SoC/JoC through talents alone ain't bad, and empowered judgement basically puts the ret paladin's mana expense a lot closer to 1.7.

If ardent defender scales with with the life percentage, permenant defensive stance for prot pallies is pretty good... though we'll have to see the warrior prot tree to compare. The new spiritual attunement ability/lasting defense talent means prot tanks can basically wear the same gear as a warrior.. You'd only need a small mana pool that was continually being replenished. Overall I am fairly amazed.

7:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our talents seem nice, our new spells seem, just, well, mostly worthless. Spiritual attunement is going to be good for tanks mostly (how often do other people actually heal you in raids?), Blessing of spell warding is going to be situational at best, same with crusader aura, Seal of Blood I dont see beating SoC (assuming its not the blood elf ability). Avenging wrath is the only one there that seems pretty nice.

10:58 PM  
Anonymous snow said...

Running the quick math on SoC vs. SoB (don't you just love theorycraft based on unsubstiated and certain-to-change information?)

Assuming 800 attack power and a Neretzek(my current weapon :D)

Base DPS 125.3 Average Swing 464 (3.7 Spd)

SoC adjusted DPS 162.9 SoB adjusted DPS 161.9
(additional damage being unmitigated)

That means you lose 16.2 health per second for doing .3 less dps. Yeah, not impressed. Obviously it will do a lot better with fast, high dps weapons, and JoB will outdps JoC.

It's basically an attempt at making the dps-oriented pally more warrior like, which IS a neat idea. Heals directed at him will both feed his mana and his health with which he is converting both into dps, similar though inferior to rage. If this concept were improved it might be a way to make a dps oriented paladin not as silly as it is now. I wonder if this is the Blood Elf pally ability, and if so, I wonder what racials existing pallies will pick up(it seems likely that they will all be level 66 skills).

11:45 PM  
Anonymous snow said...

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I like it. The main reason paladins aren't on the "front lines" in raids is because the additional dps they produce(and the benefits of a certain-to-stay-on judgement) aren't generally considered to be worth healer time/mana. With this new talent, paladins become mana batteries instead of mana sponges.
For every heal of 1000 a paladin will gain 100 mana, which is almost enough for a current highest rank FoL. In redemption or presumably even better armor in the expansion, that could very well heal for the same 1000. The paladin can use mana to dps or patch heal in the beginning of the fight. If the healers start to go oom, he can step back with his likely near-full mana bar and start to main heal. I don't know how things will really work of course, but it seems like this may be what they have in mind.

11:58 PM  
Anonymous Vaelin said...

I'm liking it all. Then again, I could say the same thing about the WoW Paladin a couple weeks before the game went live. History tends to repeat itself, so I'm approaching this all with a lot of skepticism.

12:07 AM  
Anonymous Zenyth said...

Well, one thing to keep in mind is that its all about options. Thats what paladins have wanted since day one and from the looks of things, we're getting it.

Imagine a tanking paladin, hes running Spiritual Attunement, Blessing of Kings, and Righteous Fury. Full 41 spec into Prot, so hes got all those tricks, Seal of Blood, A little Holy for Consecration. The fight starts, he drops a judgement of Wisdom on the enemy and queues up Seal of Blood and Holy Shield, drops a consecration, and has Fire Resist aura running (Lets say hes tanking something fire based). He has a healer healing him which is restoring mana, he has Ardent Defender kicking in a bit, Judgement of Wisdom, hes not going to be hurting for Mana. Seal of Blood is going off every attack and keeping his healer on his toes healing him, Holy Shield is going off on Blocks, and Lasting Judgement (Depending on which way it scales) is kicking in to give 10% mitigation. So you've got threat incoming from Four sources, Consecration, Holy Shield, Seal of Blood, and Judgement of Blood; Mana incoming from Judgement of Wisdom, Lasting Defense, and Spiritual Attunement; and to your mitigation bonuses you've got holy shields chance to block, Redoubt, and 6% coming off of spell damage thanks to improved resistance aura. I dont know, but to me that sounds like a pretty beefy tank with a blue rage bar...and thats not even counting the "Snap aggro" ability we're getting, or using Avenger's Shield to go Captain America on something.

How about a Retributio paladin? The tree isnt looking nearly as selfish from these new talents. Sanctity aura getting a bonus to healing done to folks in range. Empowered Judgement lowers their mana useage, making judging things like Seal of Blood or Seal of Command alot less costly. Fanaticism makes me extremely happy, a 10% bonus to the chance of your damaging judgements and Seal of Command to crit? Since Seal goes off Melee Crit, and with no crit or agi gear at all you'll have around 10%, thats a 20% chance to crit when it goes off right there. With even BLUE gear you can get near to 20% chance to crit so with fanaticism you're looking at Seal of Command critting once every 3 times it goes off. Sanctified Crusader looks nice as well since its basically a raidwide 2% spell/melee crit bonus. Retribution paladins wanted a reason to be up at the front lines smacking stuff in the face and now they have it. Judgement of the Crusader on the enemy for the group, stuck in a melee group to give another 6% bonus to healing spells, and running Seal of Command or Blood to bring out the damage. Retribution paladins could be a useful addition to the DPS front.

As for Holy Paladins, they're getting fairly good with these as well. Light's Grace will allow them to bust out their big heals quicker, and coupled with Divine Illumination those heals are taking half as much mana to cast. A cheaper cleanse and consecrate are nice, and the off chance to take half damage from all attacks is pretty darn nice as well.

Its all about options, and I see options and possibilities for each of the three trees. Ive been debating getting back into the game come BC (I quit in May) and if I do, I cant really say what Id like to spec as. On the one hand I love hitting stuff in the face as a Retribution paladin, but on the other id love to be a heavy tank. Probably wouldnt spec holy though, Im not against healing I just dont want it to be my focus. Tons of options, tons of possibilities, and if the "leak" turns out to be true, it might draw me back to the game.

12:54 AM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

Speaking from a pvp point of view (since that is what I liked to do when I played)

Some of it looks too good:

Seal of Blood (64): All melee attacks deal additional Holy damage equal to 30% of normal weapon damage, but the Paladin loses health equal to 10% of the total damage inflicted. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing 409 to 451 Holy damage at the cost of 136 to 151 health.

The health penalty sounds bad, but all of the threat generation will be nice. It doesn't sound as good as Seal of Command for PvP. It will be nice for constant damage, but pvp is all about burst damage, and there will likely be new ranks of SoC that bring the judgement up a bit. Also, since SoC is a second attack, it has a better chance to trigger vengence. What I was really hoping for in the expansion was more PvP viable seals, and while SoB looks awesome for tanking, it doesn't look so hot for pvp...but of course this is theorycraft.

Avenging Wrath (70): Increases all damage caused by 30% for 20 sec. Causes Forebearance.

This on the other hand looks way too good. I wonder what the CD is? It seems strange other spells listed the CD and this one didn't.

Anyway, say you spec ret, and judge crusader. Then you hit Vengence. Then you activate Avenging wrath. You have a 50% damage boost for the duration of vengance, and with the new talents (+12% to crit? lol) you will keep critting to keep vengence up for that whole 20 seconds. Assuming gear scales upwards the way it is now, getting to 40% to crit with SoC and our new talents should be fairly easy. The critadin will be very, very viable, at least in this theorycrafters opinion. This doesn't even take into account spell damage.

If Avenging Wrath is on a 30 min cooldown it wont be as sweet. A 5 or 10 minute CD sounds reasonable, 2 minutes would be overpowered. It would basically be like the paladins deathcoil.

Spell warding will be INSANE on a warrior in the BG's. If you spell ward a warrior, what the hell will a caster do against the warrior for 10 seconds? Melee? Haha GG.

Crusader Aura would be amazing in BG's as well.

Holy doesn't look as good as it was, but it was/is way too good compared to the other trees right now.

Protection looks much better.

I don't think these notes are true. If it's really this good for the paladin, I have a feeling the other classes will be getting megggga buffs. If it's true, I'm a bit bummed we didn't get more variety in pvp viable seals or any improvements to the seal/judgement system but I'd come back (I cancelled a month or two ago) just to play a critadin if it's going to be that viable.

3:00 AM  
Anonymous Ghmou, 60 Pally, Darkspear said...

Compared to Holy and Prot, the new Ret stuff kinda sucks.

I can see that they are clearly moving Paladins to tank/healer hybrids. That's great and all, but... I feel sad for Ret.

Instead of Blizzard characterizing the changes as
Paladin: Tank/Heal
Shaman: DPS/Heal

It should, perhaps, be:
Paladin: Tank/Heal or Melee DPS/Heal
Shaman: Hybrid DPS (spell/melee, spec dependant)/Heal

I don't like the idea of losing damage.

10:26 AM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

For those curious to what talents and skills the other classes received I've included links below. The warriors seem to have made out the best, as they are getting a 20 second invisibility and the ability to duel wield two handed weapons with a slight damage reduction (20%).

After reading all of these, the paladin retribution talent tree with the 18% (Conviction, Judgement of the crusader, and Fanaticism) to crit seal of command seems very good. I'm thinking it will get nerfed before this thing goes live.


Warriors:

Skills:
http://static.curse-gaming.com/nimage/319/burning_crusade_skills_warrior.jpg

Talents:
http://static.curse-gaming.com/nimage/319/burning_crusade_talents_warrior.jpg

Warlocks and Rogues:

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/news-316-1-the-burning-crusade-rogue-and-warlock-talents-leaked.html

Shaman:

http://www.worldofraids.com/v2/img/news/BC/shaman/shaman-talents-spells.txt

Mages:

http://vjeux.grabu.free.fr/cu/infos.txt

Druids:

http://vjeux.grabu.free.fr/cu/druid.txt

8:32 PM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:32 PM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

For those curious to what talents and skills the other classes received I've included links below. The warriors seem to have made out the best, as they are getting a 20 second invisibility and the ability to duel wield two handed weapons with a slight damage reduction (20%).

After reading all of these, the paladin retribution talent tree with the 18% (Conviction, Judgement of the crusader, and Fanaticism) to crit seal of command seems very good. I'm thinking it will get nerfed before this thing goes live.


Warriors:

Skills:
http://static.curse-gaming.com/nimage/319/burning_crusade_skills_warrior.jpg

Talents:
http://static.curse-gaming.com/nimage/319/burning_crusade_talents_warrior.jpg

Warlocks and Rogues:

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/news-316-1-the-burning-crusade-rogue-and-warlock-talents-leaked.html

Shaman:

http://www.worldofraids.com/v2/img/news/BC/shaman/shaman-talents-spells.txt

Mages:

http://vjeux.grabu.free.fr/cu/infos.txt

Druids:

http://vjeux.grabu.free.fr/cu/druid.txt

8:33 PM  
Anonymous snow said...

those were fake for the warrior. the real warrior ones are here:

http://www.worldofraids.com/v2/img/news/BC/warrior/warrior-talents-spells.txt

9:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, the Paladin stuff seemed good until I saw the warrior talents, Windwalk, Titan Grip and Bloodfeast are all obscene. Rogues too get some insanse stuff. Warlock stuff seems about on par with Pallys as do the shaman talents. The mage stuff seems like it could be much better then pallys, but Im not 100% on that. The druid stuff seems kind of sub par and theres no way Nature's Reprieve is written correctly, otherwise with 5 points you get all your mana back for the listed spells.

Honestly it seems pallys are about middle in this, the low/high level new talents seem weak (mostly) in comparison to most fo the other classes while our new mid level talents seem a bit stronger.

My biggest problem with all of this so far (ya, theorycraft) is that all the classes are getting reinforced in what they do best atm, except pallys. We get a little reinforced healing/damage but our new tanking talents just seem to be lagging behind the curve. Ya many pallys want to tank, it just seems blizz is making us give up too much to have that ability.

9:37 PM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

Thanks snow. They did seem a bit too good. Nothing would suprise me with Furor around though!

10:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

for those who are familiar with a little bit german, here is a nice link with pictures of the talenttrees

http://nurfed.nu.funpic.de/

3:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Might this be alliance's Seal of Blood?
Both are 64...


http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/spells-31801-Seal%20of%20Vengeance.html


Seal of Vengeance
Rank 1
Requires Level 64
Self250 Mana
Instant cast
Fills the Paladin with holy power, granting each melee attack a chance to cause 80 Holy damage over 12 sec. This effect can stack up to 5 times. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 12 sec. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing 86 Holy damage per application of Holy Vengeance.

Taxxi =P

8:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Might this be alliance's Seal of Blood?
Both are 64...


http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/spells-31801-Seal%20of%20Vengeance.html


Seal of Vengeance
Rank 1
Requires Level 64
Self250 Mana
Instant cast
Fills the Paladin with holy power, granting each melee attack a chance to cause 80 Holy damage over 12 sec. This effect can stack up to 5 times. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 12 sec. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing 86 Holy damage per application of Holy Vengeance.

Taxxi =P

8:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Without running the numbers, seal of vengence looks pretty cool.

8:04 PM  

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