17 February, 2006

Nothing's been going on.

Slow news week. My prediction is that we'll see some more stuff on 1.10 next week, cause early reports were that they were slating to release 1.10 at the beginning of March. Usually a patch of the magnitude requires extensive testing.

Either 1.10 up on test next week or the Priest talent tree calculator up or whatever.


Anonymous Elderin - 60 Pally Whisperwind said...

Well, here's my contribution to a slow week. I got into an argument with some guildies about the role of a Paladin in MC.

The "old MC" hands (a Warrior and a Holy Paladin) insisted that a Paladin should only heal and cleanse in MC. Their arguments were that by healing a Paladin will take the pressure of the Priests (lowering the time to regenerate mana) and that a Paladin doesn't do enough damage to make a difference.

I (and a friend) pointed out that we were not geared or speced to heal (I'm 30 Retribution/21 Holy). So, asking us to only heal isn't utilizing us to our highest ability. Both Skulleader (my friend) and I regularly are at the top of the damage charts in raids (even MC) so telling us to only heal may be actually hurting the raid rather than helping it.

This is not to say that we don't heal or that we're retri-noobs. Elderin (my Paladin) actually have more mana than health (by a small margin). On most bosses, we're mostly healing rather than fighting. But, if I need to, I can whip out the Doomsaw and lay a smack down. I can break 1000 points of damage with a single blow (white damage) and back that up with 800-1000 damage with the SoC. In a recent MC run, I almost caused a wipe when I hit a dog for 1000 white, 800 SoC, 400 weapon proc, 800 white, 500 SoC in two blows for a total of 3500 point of damage. I drew aggro and had to turn the dog away from the party and die (lol).

I'm astonished when I run into the anti-Paladin prejudice. I put out nearly as much damage as a rogue with armor mitigation and I'm told to get in the back and heal?

I'm told that I should roll for cloth items for intelligence?

Here's the other sad part. In my guild, there is a Paladin who has accepted the "only heal" line and has some devout items. I have a larger mana pool than he does and I wear all plate.

Well, end of rant.

10:22 PM  
Anonymous Vaelin said...

I posted this on a topic in the Paladin forums, but I'll reproduce it here for interest.

The whole issue of whether or not Paladins should be allowed to roll/dkp on 2H weapons in endgame content is stupid. Warriors should be either using 1H and shield, or dual wielding with healing-type enchants if they want to DPS (Crusader or Lifestealing). I almost never see warriors going 2H in raid dungeons and if they do, they're stupid.

Two-handed weapons are most effectively used in PvP and personal farming. Thus, the "we need to gear our warriors out first for the betterment of the guild" argument is stupid unless your guild primarily PvPs and only does endgame raids to improve your PvP gear. Even then, with appropriate gear (and by this I don't mean a full Cleansebringer set, but rather lots of strength and crit % bonus as well as intellect) a Paladin can push warrior DPS wielding a 2H weapon.

10:33 PM  
Anonymous Thoma said...

You are both right and wrong. When a group first tries MC then they will need Paladins healing. Unless you have ZG equipped priests and druids then you will need the extra omph. Your priests and druids will be able to do it but with greater downtime. Saving two mins a pull can make a big differance when you're trying to work within a 15 min timer.

When you get MC cleared then DPSing is a better option on the trash at least. I can keep 300 dps going on most of the trash mobs. But the warriors in my guild have focused more on getting tanking gear with thier DKP and left a number of nice DPS options for me.

11:10 PM  
Anonymous guilty said...

Been doing MC since April of last year so I have some experience in the raid game. Healadin's should be wearing +heal, devout sucks. Paladins in my guild that try to DPS finish around 18-25th in damage so I'm not sure if your DPS classes suck or what's going on that you finish so high in damage. Going thru MC most of the time there are only 2 warriors tanking at a time, (yes there are exceptions), our raids usually have 5 warriors so 2-3 of them are usually DPSing. Then they just use a mod or macroing to switch to Sword/Board as required.

Machin Shin - Zul'Jin

11:16 PM  
Anonymous Thoma said...

Wearing +heal is a matter of healing style/build. I perfer +spell crit and + int to build on mana pool endurance. I can place in the top 15 if I'm really trying. I suspect I could make top 12 if I could DPS on boss fights/use more mana on lava packs.

11:48 PM  
Anonymous Guilty said...

If you're talking healing, +heal is the best hands down. By any measurement if the fight lasts more then a couple minutes then +heal is the best build for healing. I don't mean to be a jerk, but there is no debate. If you want to use another build of course that is your perogative.

When trying to determine Paladin damage output it is problematic that at some point you'll stop to do something other then hurt the mob so any measurement {other then measuring damage-per-second) will drop you down the charts.

Machin Shin - Zul'Jin

12:50 AM  
Anonymous Elderin - 60 Pally Whisperwind said...

I'll admit, I don't know why we tend to lead the damage meter (I'm usually between 6-10). It is entirely possible the DPS guys suck, though we can usually get a Fire Lord down before the 4th Fire Spawn, which I'm told is good.

And I'm not saying I don't heal or won't heal. It's just that telling Elderin (me) and Skulleader (my friend) to heal only probably isn't the best for the raid. Maybe other Paladins, it's different, but we both put out a lot of damage on a single target.

A lot of it has to do with my gear. I have mostly LF but I got the Helm of the Grand Crusader, Slamshot Shoulders, and Deathgrips instead of the LF gear. More strength at attack power. I also got Fondring's necklace and Blackbreath. I have a 15% chance to crit and my Strength is about 220. I'm still looking for a decent two-handed weapon (Halberd of Smiting FTW!).

Anyway, I'm still a fighting Paladin and won't be seeing the back of the group anytime soon.

12:57 AM  
Blogger Mastgrr said...

I've found that I heal just as much as when I try to DPS as when I just stand around wasting time casting Flash of Light.

So, in essence, Paladins who go around trying to DPS means just more damage added to the damage pool. Nothing is lost, rather the opposite is true.

That's my thesis.

1:11 AM  
Anonymous Thoma said...

Except that 30% spell crit doesn't seem to be impossible for us. In very long fights I can keep sustained HPS going without running out of mana. Going for +Heal means alot less endurance in long fights. Along with higher spell crit, it takes much less +healing gear to catch up with a paladin who has focused on +heal over spell crit. Your mean heal numbers will be higher with +healing but your average will be much higher with +spell crit. And most MC items with spell crit generally have +healing or +healing/damage.

I have tried the +healing route but unless I'm main healing a five man or a three man zerg, you just don't need as much healing for MC equiped people. And before you jump on it, I can have have made serious attempts for number one on the heal meters.

Skip the Halbred of Smiting and go for the OEB or if you really want to DPS DOW. I like the OEB and wish it was a hair slower but the HOS proc just doesn't catch up in raw DPS as the OEB.

1:56 AM  
Anonymous Guilty said...

I probably shouldn't even bother posting but it really bugs me, this game has been out for over a year and people still don't understand some really basic concepts of their class.

Do you have any idea how +heal works or how to use it? Use +heal to drop ranks of the spell your casting and make sure your target has Blessing of Light. I regen mana when I cast my Rank 1 FoL and it hits for around 550 health. So that means I go infinite, even if you don't have as much +heal as I do you'll still use less mana casting lower ranks of the spells, Holy Light rank 4 is best for those that don't have much +heal. Using +heal you get more out of your mana pool.

Machin Shin - Zul'Jin

6:14 AM  
Anonymous Vaelin said...

The issue I'm addressing is not what Paladins should be doing in MC/BWL. That's pretty clear - healing and cleansing. Rather, it's whether or not the "warriors get first dibs on 2H weapons to help the guild in raiding" argument holds water. I'm saying that it doesn't, because just like Paladins are screwed into the rear with the squishies in large scale raiding, warriors are forced into melee range of the mobs. In this instance, I'm arguing that they're much better off going either sword and board, or dual wielding with enchants/trinkets that make the healers' job a little easier.

9:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this debate is kind of odd. Know what? We are hybrids and do whatever suits best in a given situation. We usually have 5-6 palas on our raids. 2 of them are retnoobs. Their job is to dps as much as they can and keep the judgements/vindication on the mob. If situation changes, they heal. Then we have 2-3 healadins doing nothing despite healing. And we have 1-2 prots. Usually the run around in their healing gear and heal. But often we are short of tanks (razorgore, garr, domo, nefarian phase1). Thats the time our prot-palas take their place (and do just fine).

Btw, by looting Ashkandi my dps got up very much. Unfortunately on the last few raids i drew aggro and had to tank occasionally. Fortunately our healers are quite good and kept me standing when finishing of the broodlord ;)

4:46 PM  
Anonymous Vaelin said...

Peep this forum post regarding speculation over the new Alliance race for the expansion. The selling point for me is that it would add Kul Tiras to the world map - something that has been mysteriously absent thus far.

I found this posted when I did a search for Kul Tiras under the WoW General forums. Fascinating, even if it isn't true. It would certainly explain the otherwise mysterious lack of Kul Tiras - the great Alliance naval power island - from the ocean north of Theramore and south of Hillsbrad.


"The people of Gilneas entombed themselves in their isolated peninsula at the outbreak of the Undead Scourge, erecting the Greymane Wall to keep out the demons and walking dead of the cursed army. To this day, refugees from the ravaged villages of Lordaeron gather at it, crying for safe haven from the Forsaken that now claim Silverpine Forest as their own.

Yet it is not much better behind the wall. For agents of the crazed wizard Arugal have infiltrated the once-prosperous land and spread a dark curse among the populace. As the first tainted moon climbed into the sky, screams rendered the countryside as the inhabitants of Gilneas changed forms and became the crazed Worgen. Few retained their minds. Many became wild and bloodthirsty.

Those who remained in control of their thoughts waged a war hidden from the eyes of the rest of the world, slaying former friends and family in an effort to preserve what little life still hoped for survival. Naming themselves the Nightcry after that first terrifying moonrise, they fought until they found themselves drained of resources and the will to continue the bloody battles alone.

Unable to conceal their horrid existence from the world any longer, a new sun rises over Gilneas. The Alliance has opened its gates to the refugees and an effort is now underway to restore humanity to the Nightcry Worgen. As one of their number, you must prove yourself a capable ally to the Alliance's cause and master the powers granted to you against your will in order to free your land...no matter how much blood you must shed.

Their zone is south of Silverpine, and it's called Gilneas. It's a level 1-10 zone and the general flow of the quests there focuses on fighting Worgen and agents of Arugal, as well as various enraged species of wildlife. There's also a threat from a renegade navy that disbanded from Kul Tiras and is ravaging the coasts with cannonfire.

The Greymane Wall is under lock and key and you are not allowed to pass through it until your mid-20s, when quests begin pointing you to Shadowfang Keep.

Their 10-20 zone is on Kul Tiras, an island south of Gilneas and west of Menethil. It serves as a sister city to Menethil. One boat transports you between Gilneas and Kul Tiras, the other between Kul Tiras and Menethil. Kul Tiras is an island with strong navy tones and mood to it, and there's lots of crab-bashing and pirate-killing on it.

After that, logically, you leave the protected areas and head to the contested zones. The closest, of course, is the Wetlands.

No details about their play mechanics were leaked, so unfortunately there's no info about their racials.

The expansion pack site had a URL like... www.worldofwarcraft.com/yaddayadda/bloodelves.html. Someone changed the URL around, plugging in various race names and eventually hit worgen.html. It was posted on the general post, but the URL was deleted within two minutes of the post. I myself saw it. All the images were broken, but the text was there.

Take it as you will"

4:56 AM  
Anonymous kyosei said...

Ah that worgen thing was admited by the poster himself awhile ago that he faked it. But the concept was sound and I kinda liked the idea of having were-wolf race.

On a different note. Has anyone gotten all the new paladin books from AQ? I hear they're rather nice upgrades. As far as I know there's new ranks blessings of might, wisdom (I think), healing (so I've heard) and holy light. Are there any others?

12:38 PM  
Anonymous Elderin - 60 Pally Whisperwind said...

I was at BlizzCon and I heard the game planners admit they totally forgot about Gilneas.

8:29 PM  
Anonymous vaelin said...

I'm not so concerned with Gilneas really, as I am with the lack of Kul Tiras on the map. I was rather peeved when WC3 came out and there was no naval warfare. It was one of the most fun, strategic elements in WC2, rich with lore and involving the great Alliance naval power Kul Tiras. I guess this theory appealed to me largely because of this.

10:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't raid anymore, but my experience is, if your guild is new to MC/BWL/ZG than you should play it safe and stand by for healing. When you get really good you at most need 1 priest for every tank to handle all the healing. So for trash clearing, 2-3 priests can handle all the healing while everyone else should DPS to quickly get to the next boss. My 2 copper.

2:35 AM  
Blogger Mastgrr said...

Read my new post on the race speculation. Please continue the discussion there :D

3:12 AM  

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