24 December, 2005

He said, she said.

12/22/2005 - An update on Paladins, Caydiem:
Regarding raids, it's a simple social fact that if a class has a heal spell, they'll be asked to heal in a raid...

5/24/2005 - Uther's Hammer, Fangtooth:
The improvements to the talent trees...should help define the Paladins role in groups. The developers liked the idea of being able to make Paladin’s into a healer with the Holy Tree, a fighter with the Retribution tree, or a tank with the Protection tree.
(Sure, you can always battle over the definition of Fangtooth's use of the word "groups").


Blogger Lord Vir said...

It's obvious we didn't get much that fangtooth talked about in his thread. I'm not sure if he got fired or quit over the paladins or something else.

As for the 'simple social fact', when it comes to pvp, a group is much more in favor of a shadow priest, or feral druid not healing, than a paladin not healing since a paladin is not much of an offensive threat.

4:29 AM  
Anonymous Vaelin said...

Here's a thought for 1.9 - one Paladin throws out a HoJ, while 4 or 5 rush in and judge Command. Not an offensive threat? ;)

6:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

or better yet, replace the 5 pallies with one mage!

3:13 AM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...


5 druids in catform landing ravage out damage that by far. 5 druids doing moonfire would outdamage that. I won't even bother talking about what 5 shadow priests could do.

4x Judgement of Command on a stunned target would net about 1200 damage, or right around what I used to do with my seal of command crits.

3:51 AM  
Anonymous nonnobis said...

All I ever wanted from my paladin was some PvE utility. I want to be able to do my buffing/healing/cleansing duties in the Core and beyond. I want to be able to half-assedly tank a five-man, or pull a mob off a clothie in UBRS. I want to kill a mob my level in less than forty-five seconds.

Buffing in 1.9 is decidedly less bother, but cleansing is more mana-expensive (on live, 60, on test, 120.) I haven't tried to tank with the new fury, but I am told (by those who have) that it is far less effective than judging SoF. I can do about the same straight damage on the PTR as live, but for more mana.

I tested holy/ret on the PTR. I made sure to get 5/5 for holy crit and 5/5 for melee crit in ret, and skipped holy shock in favor of sancity aura. With the Earthshaker equipped, I get off regular hits about the same as the hits I get on live, where I am also holy/ret (although I have better armor and some +spell damage trinkets on live that I didn't have when I copied my toon to the PTS.) When SoC procs, it procs for less damage,

BUT. When the ES procs (one to four times per fight) I judge SoC and get about 420-450 damage (holy damage, isn't it? can't remember just now) and when it crits, I get around 800. Sure, I still depend on lottery winnings, but my odds are better with the Earthshaker. It has taken some practice to get the timing right, as I have just three seconds to respond. I will likely make a macro to help me.

I can finally turn mana into damage when I am soloing. (Until the Earthshaker is nerfed or Blizz decides that SoC judgement should ONLY work on stuns and the ES proc is a disorient. Which may already be the case and I haven't realized it yet.) Tomorrow I plan to dump armorsmithing for engineering and make bombs. Pally stun-lock ftw.

I am not saying that 1.9 is a fabulous change. It seems neither better nor worse...just different. I will have to L2P all over again. But it's kinda sad that the only reasons I am at all pleased is because I will be an ever BETTER buff-bot, and because my guild was cool enough to let me roll on the ES.

4:56 AM  
Anonymous Vaelin said...

Honestly, I never expected the Paladin role to change much in the 20-40 man content. That's mainly what Caydiem and the developers are talking about here - large scale raids. Think about it, really. Every class has a handful of things they do very repeatedly. Even a raiding warrior (who many in the Protadin camp were hoping to emulate after the revamp) built for all-out tanking is specced Protection and generally piles on the +Def and resist gear, effectively crapping on his damage.

The points raised by Caydiem's post were valid - Paladins have low aggro, mana-efficient heals, and are able to provide fully customized blessings on a moment's notice. In 1.9, our effectiveness only improves in raids, with Holy Power doing wonders for heals with Illumination, and the option to provide longer-duration buffs on a broader distribution scale (while retaining the ability to land situational buffs like BoP, or even change up the passive blessings with 5 minute versions).

Overall, I was neither impressed nor repulsed by the changes in the PvP aspect. Things will just be... different. We'll have to wait and see how the movement of Repentance to the Ret tree, as well as the altered Judgment mechanics work out. Be thankful they left Reckoning as-is. Things like Eye for an Eye and Unyielding faith, as well as a much better Improved Concentration Aura seem like good improvements for PvP. The main issue here - faction balance - is as yet undecided. Paladins, I'd have to say, made very slight gains to only narrow a gulf here. If Shamans get any better at all in PvP from their changes in 1.11, I'll be greatly disheartened as the gap will just widen again. I'd like to see their PvE utility improved and fixed, and maybe grant them some better talents for reducing heal aggro.

According to Blizzard, classes were addressed in the order of need, from most to least. While we as Paladins had some beef with the placement of other classes prior to us, one might be optimistic here. Priests are up next, and everyone seems to think Holy will receive the most changes. I doubt they'll do much with the Shadow tree, and Discipline being somewhere in between. I expect some baseline improvements to totems for Shamans, including and focused around the totem talents that nobody supposedly invests in. By the time it gets to rogues, I'm thinking a few bug fixes and a talent shift or two. We'll have to wait and see.

10:36 AM  
Anonymous Vaelin said...

LOLLERSCATES! (as some would emote after having viewed the following video as a Paladin)


5:30 PM  
Anonymous Suicidal Zebra said...


2:24 AM  

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