11 May, 2006

E3 Buzz

Decoy says:
Some of the buzz on the floor atm regarding paladins is that there will be good news regarding some changes to the Protection and Retribution trees in 1.11. Apparently we will find out more post E3, sooner rather than later.

Unofficially it seems the paladin review fiasco which is now being used as a template going forward of what not to do when reviewing a class, particularly in regards to communication, is going to be addressed also.

Maybe Blizzard just started this rumor to silence the Paladins at the event, who knows. We can only hope, as most of us still playing the paladin class only know to well:)
Interesting stuff! That Protection and Retribution were going to get changes have been confirmed earlier. That along with increased raiding utility, whatever that means.

Edit: As anonymous pointed out, when Eyonix came back to do damage control he admitted about the poor communication. What's nice to hear is that there's *still* chatter on the handling during the review. It surely doesn't make the Paladin community look like the crazy conspirators that we're often pictured as.

13 Comments:

Blogger Lord Vir said...

Remember what they said before 1.9 came out at blizzcon? How paladins would be trading off survivability for 'greatly increased dps'? Interactivity? Etc? Don't buy it.

Paladins are gimped by design.

It has a lot to do with Furor and Tigole.

Check some of these posts out:

http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&q=Furor+Everquest&qt_s=Search

Read this one, it's great:

http://p202.ezboard.com/fpaladinsofnorrathfrm21.showMessageRange?start=41&stop=60&topicID=586.topic

I'll quote part of it: (by furor re:EQ)

The warrior community, up until a month ago, was getting ZERO support from the Hybrid Knight community in what is obviously a growing problem in class balance. As a matter of fact, for every warrior whine on TSW there is some troll Knight that chimes in or starts a new thread adding fuel to the fire.

What we do then in turn is not continue to piss and moan but instead tear your class apart. We examine every aspect of it and eventually, quantify it down to its very last pixel. Then when you pull a 'but this' there will be no need for anyone to make assumptions or guesses, we'll just slap you in the face with facts and truth.

There are people in this game that do not understand the gross imbalances that present themselves between Warriors and Knights. They are oblivious to the indicators that are flashing wildly in front of their faces. Some of these people are, ironically, very high end, old time EQ players. They have the ears of the developers and sit on their asses feeding said developers misinformation. They need a wakeup call.

The reality of the situation is that as much as I'd like to see some warrior upgrades, the only thing I see that causing is Knight complaining in the long run - and over the years I've seen what Knight whines can do. A small, well tuned downgrade to certain aspects of being a Knight would probably cause an uproar in the 'now' but over time would go away as people adjusted properly to their roles. Your role isn't to usurp my role - something it is currently doing.

Itemization fixes, while being absolutely necessary, are only a temporary/short term fix. A band-aid of sorts I suppose...

And I'm sorry to have to inform people that 2 expansions worth of 'hardship' is not justification for the Knight's current situation. What's also laughable are the people that claim to have gone through the hardships of 'insert expansion(s) here' when in reality they started playing Everquest a year or two ago.


He cries about paladin dps in another post, when he's not so busy crying about knights.

Do you think, considering his tone that he doesn't hold a bias over from EQ? He is living out the fanboi dream of making his own class the best.

Here is another fun one:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.everquest/browse_thread/thread/b97a4c2c07c19b5b/a952f01582ea88ec?lnk=st&q=Furor+Everquest+Paladin&rnum=1&hl=en#a952f01582ea88ec

Do your homework paladins, the paladin is gimped by design.

4:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the second time bliz has aknowledged a communication problem with our class, the first was way back when the blues first came back to the pally forums. Sorry if I dont believe their story but its not like theyve done anything to earn our trust yet.

4:01 AM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

Haha, it gets better.

Have you ever seen the troll in the paladin fourms named bendiction? It ends up it's a guildmate of furors from FoH.

After benediction posted that, she tried to edit it out, but she was caught. It's in this thread:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?ForumName=wow-paladin&ThreadID=1037179

The text:

Q u o t e:
He never did that when I was in FoH, since Paladins didn't have heals worth casting until years later, when they got decent group heals.

You know what Paladins did in EQ? They tanked or they hit things.



LOL. You heard it folks, Benediction, the #1 Blizzard healbotting Paladin fanboi, was a member of FoH in EQ.

Seriously. WOW. That guild, in that game, was the single greatest concentration of whining, no-life, arrogant pricks on the face of the earth. That isn't an opinion or a troll. That is a fact, attested to all the internet over.

I just want to see this documented for posterity. Because now, every time you post in a thread belittling other Paladin players, you get a link to this post.

Go ahead, edit yours. But you can't edit mine. It's too late.


So blizz is still manipulating the paladin community via trolls, just like Caydiem did as ellia. Sad.

Even though I've moved on to another class, it's pitiful to see the way paladins are treated in wow. What is even worse is how they delete threads when anyone tries to post about it.

4:57 AM  
Anonymous Z said...

I always assumed the raid and class designers were old EQ heads, but I never imagined that they approached their job with the same mentality as the fanboys on the forums. I figured the people responsible for the development of the game were above that - I was wrong.

The statements they, these few (yet influential) designers, made in the recent past are insightful and should help every paladin player understand why their class doesn't jive with the design of the game overall. The most glaring example is the seal and judgement system: it just doesn't fit and serves as a major crutch. The next painfully obvious supporting bit of evidence is the fact that a class that wears plate can't tank worth a damn.

Hell, Furor was so passionate I would have written him off as a nonsensical fanboy and ignored his posts if I didn't know he's a major designer of the most successful MMO in history. Baffling.

Kaplan (I think it was him, anyways) summed it up: the paladin community is largely divided in opinion, the prevaling difference being that some want to DPS, some tank, and others heal. I think the same can be said of PVE shamans. So, why not make everyone happy and just implement it? It was mentioned by many during the 1.9 patch buildup and ignored. If they really did allow the hybrid classes to specialize and compensated warriors and priests by giving them unique qualities that would make them a viable choice even when hybrids were present, their game would enjoy even more success.

Oh well, fuck em.

5:38 AM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

Don't know if I posted this one here yet:

http://forums.worldofwar.net/archive/index.php/t-179467.html

The money quote:

Furor (leader FoH)

While Everquest decimated the classic model and gestalt of Paladins, WoW revives them with fervor. Mind you, that won't cure the majority of EQ Paladins of their "I NEED TO BE A GOD" mentality but those that don't go into World of Warcraft with that mentality to begin with will fare better over time than the 'ME ME ME' crowd and have a very good time in the process.

6:00 AM  
Blogger Mastgrr said...

I can understand that Furor hates Paladins. It's been said before but; Blizzard is a large company and Furor isn't involved in class design. He's one of the raid dungeon designers. They have different teams for different subjects within the game. Ultimately I think Furor is limited in dungeon design by how the class designers design the classes, not the other way around.

6:26 AM  
Blogger Mastgrr said...

Nice stuff there though, very pecilular that he was in the same guild as Furor.

6:27 AM  
Anonymous Thordurin of Bloodhoof said...

I'd like to know who he was in FOH, and at what point in EQ he played. I played high-end on Veeshan and knew quite a few members of FOH.

8:00 AM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

It's my understanding that the forbearance debuff came because paladins were using BoP on teammates to make some pve encounter in BWL easier. I can't remember which one.

I don't buy that Furor has no influence over the end result, while I realize his main job is raid/dungeon content, he is also close with tigole who is the lead developer.

12:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My question is why anyone with a name so close to Furher (aka hitler) has so much say in anything. What is this, world of nazi craft? As a Jewish Paladin (Jewaden?) I'm offended.

2:58 PM  
Anonymous Suicidal Zebra said...

Erm... yeah, sure, right, whatever.

4:20 PM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

My question is why anyone with a name so close to Furher (aka hitler) has so much say in anything. What is this, world of nazi craft? As a Jewish Paladin (Jewaden?) I'm offended


lol dude, Furor is a word. Nice troll though

5:43 PM  
Anonymous Z said...

Quote: "I can understand that Furor hates Paladins. It's been said before but; Blizzard is a large company and Furor isn't involved in class design. He's one of the raid dungeon designers. They have different teams for different subjects within the game. Ultimately I think Furor is limited in dungeon design by how the class designers design the classes, not the other way around."

Raid design and class design are obviously very closely related. Any changes on one side of the house will influence and in most cases directly affect the other. The two areas are far from exclusive, and from my experience of working in IT and directly with programmers on a daily basis, they probably hold many meetings and feed off each others ideas and wishes.

In short, there is no doubt in my mind that the two developers work together (along with all of the others).

12:45 AM  

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